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Simply because Putin is a scum bag and it is 2014, not cold war time where he can come into a country and take it. The Crimea vote was a scam, it was vote to join Russia or vote to join Russia. Look at Poland how it developed after it seperated from Soviets, Poland has emerged as one the best economies in the EU. You drive from Poland to Ukraine and its like night and day, roads are bad, horrible infastracture, you know why? Because Ukraine is still a slave to the gangsters of Russia. It needs to end and Ukraine should be allowed to join the EU, if you dont like it move back to Russia, take you stuff, leave your home and start a new life in this great Russian kingdom but what it looks like is Russias economy will sink faster as faster as their stocks are plunging because Putin wants to play a big black evil bear sacraficing his people and economy.
May be to you the shiny facade of today's Poland is all that matters, but it doesn't evade ALL Ukrainians ( Eastern Ukrainians in particular) that Poles are people of the second sort in the E.U.
So not all of them, unanimously, want to compete for what's left of EU's job market with Poles and Balts and hence they don't consider "Alignment with EU" ( forget about EU membership) as something "god-sent"
Nobody is saying that Crimea cannot join Russia, or Kharkov, or Donetsk for that matter ... what we ARE saying is that it must be done via a free and fair referendum where the majority of those registered to vote in that area vote in favor.
The Crimean "referendum" was a sham. The Russians brought in people by the planeload and busload to rig the vote. You know, kinda like how the Democrats give street bums a ham & cheese sandwich and a pack of cigarettes to vote the party line across the ballot.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I really do not care if Russia or Ukraine has Crimea. But the way it was taken recently from Ukraine by force was terrible.
Since you mentioned it - you got to love our Democratic party in New York lol. They been doing that stuff since the 1800s.
May be to you the shiny facade of today's Poland is all that matters, but it doesn't evade ALL Ukrainians ( Eastern Ukrainians in particular) that Poles are people of the second sort in the E.U.
So not all of them, unanimously, want to compete for what's left of EU's job market with Poles and Balts and hence they don't consider "Alignment with EU" ( forget about EU membership) as something "god-sent"
Its going to take a while for Poland to recover and catch up from centuries of domination from the East. But at least now as a member of the European Union and NATO they don't have to worry about anymore Nazi-Soviet Pacts or "Partitions of Poland".
You may knock the EU and NATO Erasure, but you have to admit that there has been no wars among countries like Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Britain, Italy, Austria, Turkey etc. since their creation. No more Hitlers, Napoleons, Suleymans, Attilas, Caesars rampaging across the continent. These were countries that like clockwork used to have wars with each other every 20 years or so. But now, finally after thousands of years of warfare most of Europe is at peace.
Its going to take a while for Poland to recover and catch up from centuries of domination from the East. But at least now as a member of the European Union and NATO they don't have to worry about anymore Nazi-Soviet Pacts or "Partitions of Poland".
I don't believe in such "recoveries" and "catching ups."
There is a reason why Poland has been ( from certain point in time on) partitioned by Russia and Germany quite a few times in history, and I suspect that the answer is going all the way back to the 16th century.
Quote:
You may knock the EU and NATO Erasure, but you have to admit that there has been no wars among countries like Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Britain, Italy, Austria, Turkey etc. since their creation.
I think that this statement explains the whole situation rather well;
"What for Russians might appear as "NATO expansion", or for the West, "the march of democracy" is, in fact, the expansion of Western capital, which needs the guarantees of Western legal and political system to function."
No more Hitlers, Napoleons, Suleymans, Attilas, Caesars rampaging across the continent. These were countries that like clockwork used to have wars with each other every 20 years or so. But now, finally after thousands of years of warfare most of Europe is at peace.
So if in earlier periods the wars were all about wealth, additional territories, money (and hence ultimately the power) that Napoleons, Caezars and Atillas were fighting for, modern European powers including, the fact that at the end they've decided to come together and "make money" jointly, won't help for long. True, it helped to keep peace for some time, but the fact that Russia has been "thrown out of the game" back in the nineties didn't settle the matters, but rather postponed the imminent future explosion. Because truth to be told, today's Russia is aggressive capitalist state, looking for its share and THAT brings the whole game back to the square one, even though "the others" decided to act jointly in this respect, which, as I've said, swept under the carpet the internal conflicts for some time.
So NATO's expansion means precisely that - an attempt to suffocate Russia's economic interests once again, since this attempt didn't turn out quite successful back in the nineties. The current attempt to cut Ukraine off from Russia comes within the same lines, and my prediction is that whole situation will backfire at the West in an unprecedented manner.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I really do not care if Russia or Ukraine has Crimea. But the way it was taken recently from Ukraine by force was terrible.
Since you mentioned it - you got to love our Democratic party in New York lol. They been doing that stuff since the 1800s.
Agreed 100% if it were a UN sponsored referendum and they got a majority vote then I would be all in favor. But you and I both know that something is a tad fishy when polling shows only ~40% in favor of unification with Russia but then a "referendum" magically results in a 99% vote.
Even Obama couldent win Wyandanch by that big of a margin
Its going to take a while for Poland to recover and catch up from centuries of domination from the East. But at least now as a member of the European Union and NATO they don't have to worry about anymore Nazi-Soviet Pacts or "Partitions of Poland".
You may knock the EU and NATO Erasure, but you have to admit that there has been no wars among countries like Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Britain, Italy, Austria, Turkey etc. since their creation. No more Hitlers, Napoleons, Suleymans, Attilas, Caesars rampaging across the continent. These were countries that like clockwork used to have wars with each other every 20 years or so. But now, finally after thousands of years of warfare most of Europe is at peace.
This is what angers me the most about Russia as of late. For the first time in recorded history Europe has relative peace and stability. Now this Tsar Putin wannabe comes along and shatters the post 1991 world order and turns back the clock to 1945.
Im no fan of the EU but at least it has brought peace to Europe for longer than ever before in history.
This is what angers me the most about Russia as of late. For the first time in recorded history Europe has relative peace and stability. Now this Tsar Putin wannabe comes along and shatters the post 1991 world order and turns back the clock to 1945.
Im no fan of the EU but at least it has brought peace to Europe for longer than ever before in history.
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I really do not care if Russia or Ukraine has Crimea. But the way it was taken recently from Ukraine by force was terrible.
Since you mentioned it - you got to love our Democratic party in New York lol. They been doing that stuff since the 1800s.
show affected by the Russian army in the Crimea? your nonsense is not justified.
Agreed 100% if it were a UN sponsored referendum and they got a majority vote then I would be all in favor. But you and I both know that something is a tad fishy when polling shows only ~40% in favor of unification with Russia but then a "referendum" magically results in a 99% vote.
Even Obama couldent win Wyandanch by that big of a margin
97 percent of 83-5 per cent of arrivals to a referendum. you thought it would be different? Most of the population is Russian and foolish to think and doubt that they will be for the Nazis.
I'd to see how would you vote, when that your country is no longer legitimate authority and replaced by nationalists and fascists sew.
Nobody is saying that Crimea cannot join Russia, or Kharkov, or Donetsk for that matter ... what we ARE saying is that it must be done via a free and fair referendum where the majority of those registered to vote in that area vote in favor.
The Crimean "referendum" was a sham. The Russians brought in people by the planeload and busload to rig the vote. You know, kinda like how the Democrats give street bums a ham & cheese sandwich and a pack of cigarettes to vote the party line across the ballot.
Free and fair referendum, kind of like how Yanukovich was voted president by a free and fair election, and ousted by a non-democratic means? The protesters (thus new gov) is obviously not a fan of the democratic process, hence their actions before, during, and after the revolt. Why would anyone want to be attached to a gov like that? It would be like asking countries to remain part of the Soviet Union.
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