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Old 09-30-2019, 12:04 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
If you had read the article you would have noticed the comment about "sober voices" correcting stupid things done by certain fools.

Rail service is going to start again, that's great for tourism there. Crimea is flourishing.

Suck it up. With the loonie fascists gone (fled to the west?) things are getting back to normal for Ukrainians and Russians.

Where are the likes of Klitchko and Porkochunko, Shakeasswilly? Brighton Beach?

This is so looking like another failure for the west, yet again.
No, you're wrong about this. They are upgrading 2 checkpoints. Tass can spin it all they want, as we know they hope to present Crimea as being completely normal. There are no plans for rail service and the tourism is still much lower than it used to be. I'm glad to see the tone of their reporting changing though, as it bodes well for the future relations in the region.

Speaking of, I hear Pushlin could be pushed out after appealing for Donetsk to join Russia. I really hope these are all signs that Russia wants to make a deal. Lavrov is talking about making it like Transdnistra in Moldova. I think this would suit most Ukrainians fine.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:48 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post

P.S. As for the war zone - of course it turned into the ghost area.
After all the shelling of the Ukrainian army, murdering of the locals and plundering of the villages.
I wasn't talking about the war zone. I was talking about cities under your precious DNR control. Cities and towns that never saw combat... utterly ghost towns. But if you look across the lines at formerly occupied cities that were recaptured by Ukraine's army, those places seem to be full of life. Sad really, you have to blame nonexistent shelling for the clear failure of these projects which have brought nothing but misery and decline to the areas they touched. In a way I'm glad as it shows clearly what the result of the Russian virus brings.

As for the IMF, they are punting until December. They will probably work it out. The plan is to do a 3 year deal and then the IMF should no longer be needed for financing.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:45 AM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Looks like the new development is just in:
Once Volker resigned, Zelensky officially accepted so-called "Steinmeier's formula" today for Donbass.



https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-pol...?cn-reloaded=1


What is Steinmeier formula?
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:06 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Looks like the new development is just in:
Once Volker resigned, Zelensky officially accepted so-called "Steinmeier's formula" today for Donbass.



https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-pol...?cn-reloaded=1


What is Steinmeier formula?
He actually accepted it on September 18, conditioned on there being no armed formations present. It was Russia who was holding out on the definition of when troops are pulled out in this formula as they previously insisted it was after elections. So the connection to Volker is non-existent (but Russia saw it as their chance to make a deal). I'm glad it looks like it can work. Looks like I was right about the DNR leader being detained and now we know why. But the other side hasn't confirmed yet so we don't know they accept the troop pullback before elections condition...but why would he say it if they didn't agree? I'm optimistic

Last edited by DKM; 10-01-2019 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:25 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
Wow this is looking pretty serious now! Some high up Russians are congratulating themselves on the victory in Ukraine. This is good, we needed them to be able to sell this at home as a victory (over whoever, who cares). And the Banderi are mad (which is also a good sign). Ze may have pulled off a miracle... but I remain cautiously optimistic.
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:35 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
He actually accepted it on September 18, conditioned on there being no armed formations present. It was Russia who was holding out on the definition of when troops are pulled out in this formula as they previously insisted it was after elections. So the connection to Volker is non-existent (but Russia saw it as their chance to make a deal). I'm glad it looks like it can work. Looks like I was right about the DNR leader being detained and now we know why. But the other side hasn't confirmed yet so we don't know they accept the troop pullback before elections condition...but why would he say it if they didn't agree? I'm optimistic

From what I know, Vadim Pristaiko ( the new minister of foreign affairs) officially accepted it about that time, but then Volker was dispatched immediately to Ukraine and Pristaiko started denying it all - that he ever accepted that Steinmeier formula.

If this is the case, and Ze is forced to accept the formula (the way Russian "60 minutes" keep on repeating it - (the conditions of it, the political part in particular, where Ukraine has to change its Constitution in order to grant Donbass a "special status," ) - then yes, Kremlin can congratulate itself with one more victory.

But I need to dig into details still what this is all about.
This is the Part Deux I was talking about, and I'll be watching closely, since this is the part where American lies stop and Russian lies begin ( and by "Russian lies" I mean Putin and Co of course.)
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:45 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,853,283 times
Reputation: 6690
This was the only way it was ever going to work. Give the Kremlin a face saving gesture, a "victory" in Ukraine. They would not back down any other way. Make Donbas like Crimea used to be, an "autonomous republic". Give the region the right to make Russian a state language... let's move on already! They aren't going to have any more power than that though...
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,380 times
Reputation: 924
I cannot read Steinmeier's agreement text. Is it hidden for public usage?
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Old 10-01-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Europe
4,692 posts, read 1,164,380 times
Reputation: 924
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Wow this is looking pretty serious now! Some high up Russians are congratulating themselves on the victory in Ukraine. This is good, we needed them to be able to sell this at home as a victory (over whoever, who cares). And the Banderi are mad (which is also a good sign). Ze may have pulled off a miracle... but I remain cautiously optimistic.
Не laughs best who laughs last.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:51 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,435,844 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
This was the only way it was ever going to work. Give the Kremlin a face saving gesture, a "victory" in Ukraine. They would not back down any other way. Make Donbas like Crimea used to be, an "autonomous republic". Give the region the right to make Russian a state language... let's move on already! They aren't going to have any more power than that though...
How are the people in the Donbas going to take this? There were 13000 people killed in this debacle, a lot of them children. I know that there should be people put on trial for this. Porkochunko, Tyurchinov, Lyashko, Avakov and many others.

This did not have to happen. It could have been avoided.

I doubt a Ukrainian soldier with the blue and yellow insignia on his shoulder will be safe on the streets of Donetsk for a long time to come. The facists will be targets forever.
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