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Now when it comes to Donbass...
I would like to see what options will they have ( if they have them) on the ballot.
Will they have an option to join Russia or Ukraine?
Will they have an option to stay independent?
It's important to mention, that while a lot of Donbassians don't see their future as part of Ukraine any longer for obvious reasons, part of them consider Putin as a traitor already as well ( as much as people of the South-Eastern Ukraine.)
And after so much spilled blood and their hopes to be united with Russia, if the only option they'll have is to be shoved back in Ukraine ( the way it serves Putin's purpose) - I am not quite sure what is going to happen at this point, so more info is needed.
I hope they have these choices in their vote. I'm not sure what else they would vote on. It should be about their relationship to Ukraine. I just don't see how being a mini-statelet is possible.
Putin seems very intent to shove them back. Most Ukrainians would rather the Donbas leaves totally or come back but without any special status. Or at least no status to tell the rest of them what to do. I imagine they have some work to figure out how all this is voted on, since multiple options will require a runoff vote. I hope they choose to leave because it seems the locals would fit in more with the Eurasian Russia than a democratic Europe. It all seems surreal but I hope it works out.
Another frozen situation like in Georgia, recognition only by Russia??
A Crimea-like referendum and joining Russia??
Russia does support Donbass and its residents can get Russian citizenship...that is serious help.
The general direction where this thing is going is the best outcome....a significant autonomy with strong rights protection to prevent a potential Poroshenko-like or Saakashvili-like Russophobic buffoon to get strange ideas next time.
A splitting of Ukraine along the Dnieper river (and including Odessa) would have been the best outcome....it could still happen in the far future if Russia can manage to turbocharge its economy with very high growth rate exerting a strong gravitational pull on the Russian speaking eastern part of the country.
Last edited by saturno_v; 10-03-2019 at 02:45 PM..
The general direction where this thing is going is the best outcome....a significant autonomy with strong rights protection to prevent a potential Poroshenko-like or Saakashvili-like Russophobic buffoon to get strange ideas next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v
A splitting of Ukraine along the Dnieper river (and including Odessa) would have been the best outcome....it could still happen in the far future if Russia can manage to turbocharge its economy with very high growth rate exerting a strong gravitational pull on the Russian speaking eastern part of the country.
They are going to need to beat Ukraine's growth rate, which hasn't happened since 2015 before the EU association was signed. This could happen in only one of the following scenarios:
1) Ukraine reverts back to a oligarch government, abandons trade agreement with the west, etc.
2) Russia abandons state control of much of the economy (reforms like Ukraine is doing)
3) Oil and gas prices double.
They are going to need to beat Ukraine's growth rate, which hasn't happened since 2015 before the EU association was signed. This could happen in only one of the following scenarios:
1) Ukraine reverts back to a oligarch government, abandons trade agreement with the west, etc.
2) Russia abandons state control of much of the economy (reforms like Ukraine is doing)
3) Oil and gas prices double.
Ukraine has been in a depression....you can have spurt of relatively high growth when you start from depressed levels.
Ukraine is losing all of its high tech and technological capacity....it is a basket case.
Again, nominal GDP is fiction. PPP is what counts.
Ukraine, as a nation, is done for. President voted out, and replaced by a comic who played the President of Ukraine in his show! Give it up people, this is an utter joke. Time to break up Ukraine into 5 regions; Donbass joins Russia; Hungarian, Polish, Romanian regions go back to their nations. Western Ukraine retains name. End of story.
Time to break up Ukraine into 5 regions; Donbass joins Russia; Hungarian, Polish, Romanian regions go back to their nations. Western Ukraine retains name. End of story.
Western Ukraine is the Hungarian, Polish and Romanian regions. What about the 85% of the country not covered above?
Ukraine, as a nation, is done for. President voted out, and replaced by a comic who played the President of Ukraine in his show! Give it up people, this is an utter joke. Time to break up Ukraine into 5 regions; Donbass joins Russia; Hungarian, Polish, Romanian regions go back to their nations. Western Ukraine retains name. End of story.
All lands east of the Dniepre river including Odessa go to Russia. Recreate Galacia as a nation, sort out the differences with the Poles, Hungarians and Romanians. If they get uppity about "their territiory" slap them around.
The people of the western Ukraine have a reason to be angry. The problem is none of their neighbors are innocent, that means Russia too.
Create the nation of Galacia again, make the neighbors pay retribution to the nation for all those past wrongs. Maybe if Russia got Odessa a Galacian nation would have special access to the port there, maybe a certain percentage of the port revenue can go into the coffers of the country.
I have to say that the Austrohungarian Empire was the worst offender back in the 17th century. They taxed the people to death and returned nothing to them. The taxes extracted went to build palaces and estates for the nobles all over the empire. Poland was guilty of that in the times of the PLC too.
I know. Pie in the sky but if you want to solve problems sometimes you need to think out of the box.
You want to guess what 2019 will look like on that chart?
Nice try
Russia is the 6th largest economy in the world by PPP (2018 data) Ukraine is what?? 50th??
Not only that, the Ukrainian economy will be probably increasingly made up of foreign firms that just produce stuff in the country taking advantage of low wages and own the local national resources...an economy totally in the hands of foreigners and potentially very volatile....
Truly sad for what it was one of the most advanced of the Soviet Republics.
Listen to Putin himself talking about the status of the Ukraine economy....
Shipbuilding gone, aviation gone, rocketry ans space technology gone....good job, keep it up!!
First of all, it becomes obvious that in Ukrainian ( as much as in Russian understanding) "corruption" has somewhat different meaning comparably to Western understanding.
To Ukrainians ( as much as for Russians) the root of corruption means first of all the ability of the rich people ( be that oligarchs, government officials and the rest) to move money outside of the country and place it on foreign accounts, offshore accounts in particular.
I would add a little bit to this definition. Corruption,in my understanding, is theft by officials of state funds. Unfortunately, in Russia, many corrupt officials openly steal state funds allocated for a particular project using "gray schemes", or using their official position to lobby the interests of certain companies involved in the project and get "kickbacks". Sometimes you look at some official with a salary of 200 thousand rubles, and he has a mansion for a million dollars, a yacht for 5, children study in England for 100 thousand pounds a year, a house somewhere in Spain.. This is what is called corruption, i.e. the official does not care about the state interest, which is his direct duty. All he cares about is his pocket.
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