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I think what the real people of Ukraine really want is peace and stability. These Right Sector people I simply do not trust. They want a "pure Ukraine", what does that entail?
It's not about you thinking who the "real people" are and what they "really want". It's not abstract philosophy of Jiddu Krishnamurthy. References are needed. No Life News or rt. A few pages before, I've posted a link to an interview by the Right Sector leader, I've read plenty of posts by all 4 Russian residents of this thread. If you call "Pravii Sector" "ultra nazi", what does it make you all? Ultra, ultra, ultra.... who knows how many times... nazi? Your posts and views are much more rabid that those of Pravii Sector.
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I fully understand that the Yanukovich government was corrupt but what do they have now? An American puppet setting up the country to be raped. Farmers are going to be pushed off land that they have owned for generations when they can't pay the higher property taxes.
You cannot just project the info you've picked from some progressive lefty rag (I recognize these talking points) on the country you have no clue about. "Farmers", "pushing off land", "owned for generations", " higher property taxes". All that progressive nonsense does not apply to Ukraine in the least. Ukraine doesn't allow ownership of the agricultural lands by foreigners, there are few if any Ukrainian farmers, aging peasants cannot wait to sell their small plots they have no means to farm (but nobody is buying), nobody owned anything for generations since Ukraine was a part of USSR where agriculture was forcefully "collectivized" in 1930s, the highest Ukrainian tax is graft and corruption, and one can lose his shirt and life to that and it's impossible to predict when. You cannot rape Ukraine more than it was already raped by the post soviet "elites", anything that lefty rags perceive as "country raped" by big, bad USA would be an improvement . How America would rape Ukraine more than a president who squeezed cool 100 billion$ for himself and his family in less than 3 years of his presidency while making survival of independent (of the Donetsk clan) businesses nearly impossible? Mechanics of the rape, please, no BS.
How in the hell an intelligent person could say that a corrupt, semi-literate public official who used his office to appropriate tens of billions of dollars (in a dirt poor country) is the same as an educated businessman who's made his billion in manufacturing of food stuff? Those are two incomparable things even assuming shady business deals Poroshenko's made.
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Corporations like Monsanto and Cargill will move in and buy it cheap. Old people have had their pensions cut and prices are sky rocketing. It seems to me the attitude of the current regime is just to let them all die off of starvation and disease.
Neither Monsanto nor Cargill are in business of owning land and farming. If they move in, they bring plants, technology, expertise and jobs with them. Both businesses are well represented in Ukraine. Sure, Russian aggression and war has nothing to do with prices and pensions, it's all about the attitude of the regime. If only Ukraine would let comrade Putin to have his way with Russian Reich, they would be rolling in it.
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I think Ukrainians are in for a very hard time, all thanks to people like you.
You think when you should seek facts, and you don't think what you should think about the facts you didn't get because you were thinking too much about the white noise under your cranium. Very hard time is due to the deranged Russian Fuhrer waging a war on Ukrainian people who dared to overthrow a corrupt, dead end regime, just like the one comrade Putin's created.
You think when you should seek facts, and you don't think what you should think about the facts you didn't get because you were thinking too much about the white noise under your cranium. Very hard time is due to the deranged Russian Fuhrer waging a war on Ukrainian people who dared to overthrow a corrupt, dead end regime, just like the one comrade Putin's created.
The fact remains that Russia could not have accomplished all this without the support of the people in those areas. The crook you say you had as President was voted in, so who's fault is that. If you don't like him, vote him out. Don't use armed Mobs. Makes you look like Criminals and Thugs. That's why I don't think America should be involved. Ukraine made the mess. let them deal with it.
America does not care about Ukraine, America cares about Putin.
Putin's approval rating is around 80%. Obama's low 40. We have elected a republican majority in congress so that Obama can't do anything more, domestically. To wage wars he still needs Congress, so messing with Putin is about all he can do these days.
I don't see this happening either. American puppet is deemed corrupt by the Whitehouse and Ukraine is no where near a place that is safe for US investor. They have a revolution every 7 years with a corrupt court system... Porshenko is not going to get me to invest in Ukraine, and even if the next guy does make Ukraine favorable for investments there is always threat of another revolution.
Under Yanukovich there were no wars, people had shelter and food, now what do they have ?
Ukrainian people universally disliked Yanukovich thuggish ways. It was not a matter of abstract political philosophy, the greedy ways of Yanukovich clan have endangered shelter and food for way too many. Even with the wicked Russian Fuhrer at the gate, Ukrainians have a chance to make it better, they will not allow another thug in power to insult their dignity by re-instituting semi-criminal feudalism.
Ukrainian people universally disliked Yanukovich thuggish ways. It was not a matter of abstract political philosophy, the greedy ways of Yanukovich clan have endangered shelter and food for way too many. Even with the wicked Russian Fuhrer at the gate, Ukrainians have a chance to make it better, they will not allow another thug in power to insult their dignity by re-instituting semi-criminal feudalism.
The fact remains that Russia could not have accomplished all this without the support of the people in those areas. The crook you say you had as President was voted in, so who's fault is that. If you don't like him, vote him out. Don't use armed Mobs. Makes you look like Criminals and Thugs. That's why I don't think America should be involved. Ukraine made the mess. let them deal with it.
Anybody who steals that much would not allow an election to interfere with his gains, especially after making 180 degrees turn on EU deal to join Russia and 10 more post Soviet totalitarian kleptocracies. There is no way Russians will get rid of Putin's clan through election process, too much at stake to allow such a possibility. There is no way USA would elect an "outsider" President who is not chained to the existing ruling class by the web of invisible connections and mutual interests. Elections are not there for revolutions. Russia was preparing for this aggression for a while, just in case somebody unapproved by Putin would try to wrestle out an election victory in Ukraine. In the "best" case scenario of Yanukovich clan allowing free and meaningful elections, maidan has brought Russian aggression 1 year earlier, that's all.
As for the local support, it's hard to count that, since armed Russian supporters and their Nazi allies from Russia cleansed the area of the unarmed Ukrainian supporters who were abandoned by Ukrainian state to deal with the deranged, armed and murderous crowds backed by 140 million strong bear, lusting for blood and glory. How much support would it take for somebody armed and willing to kill to cleanse the area of the unarmed undesirables having no allies? Very few. I have a hunch that the Russians might experience that truism in the future.
Have I just been insulted? I seek facts and I think about them throughout the process. I collect and compare if I have time and I use my knowledge of politics history and come to a conclusion.
Boris states not only fact but common sense.
I'm still waiting for you learn how to write. You're a bore. Half your text in any given post is garbage.
Ukrainians have a chance to make it better, they will not allow another thug in power to insult their dignity by re-instituting semi-criminal feudalism.
Ukranians voted in that "Thug." One mans Thug is another mans President. You don't allow bands of thugs to oust one thug. You just don't get it do you? Ukranians screwed all this up by themselves. You had some folks that did not want to go with the EU, and some that did. So the ones that did think they have a right to force their will on the rest, and you want to complain about Russia ? Let the people vote. You don't speak for all of the Ukraine.
Armed mobs that overthrow elected Governments have no "Dignity." Remember that...
Anybody who steals that much would not allow an election to interfere with his gains, especially after making 180 degrees turn on EU deal to join Russia and 10 more post Soviet totalitarian kleptocracies.
As for the local support, it's hard to count that, since armed Russian supporters and their Nazi allies from Russia cleansed the area of the unarmed Ukrainian supporters who were abandoned by Ukrainian state to deal with the deranged, armed and murderous crowds backed by 140 million strong bear, lusting for blood and glory.
How much support would it take for somebody armed and willing to kill to cleanse the area of the unarmed undesirables having no allies? Very few. I have a hunch that the Russians might experience that truism in the future.
Its up to the people to decide who they want to go with. Sounds like your afraid of elections because the Thugs that took over the Government might be thrown out. You sound like any other supporter of Anarchists.
Do you think everyone here is stupid, and that World News comes in by courier pigeons? We know what goes on there, and we watch live videos from there, posted on the Web by ordinary citizens. The Russians did not kill anyone when they sent help. The people welcomed them, and where not "rounded up" as you claim. The Ukrainian Military there joined the Separatists. The Ukrainian Army is deserting and joining the Russian backed citizens. Its documented.
No one here is stupid enough to believe your crap about Russia coming in and killing and cleansing the area. In fact, it looks like the Thugs that took power from the elected President are losing ground because his supporters are a minority. You need to go tell your tall tales and propaganda to people that believe you. Once you start lying, nothing you say can be believed.
Have I just been insulted? I seek facts and I think about them throughout the process. I collect and compare if I have time and I use my knowledge of politics history and come to a conclusion.
Good post...
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