Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You'll never make me believe that working FOR someone or something is better than working FOR YOURSELF. Working for some one else is servitude and it is of the worst kind when you don't have a choice, then it's SLAVERY.
Basically that's what Russians argued as well during Soviet times.
That was the reason why private sector was practically absent there - the Soviet state was not prohibiting the enterprise per se, but the hired labor. ( Hired by a private person, not a state.)
And this was a wide-spread sentiment among Russians ( working class in particular,) that they didn't have to "work for owners," - just for the faceless state, which ( in theory) was "them."
Remind me. As far as I remember Brits and French decided to pacify Hitler by letting him to annex Sudetenland and later to dismember Czechoslovakia. They didn't want an European war over preserving Czechoslovakia sovereignty. It does ring a bell, Euros are at their pacifying best again, this time they think that giving Putin green light to dismember/control Ukraine is a small price to pay for Euro comfort and peace.
I think that Putin has no plans to dismember the Ukraine, he will seek to control it. He will not allow the entry of Ukraine into NATO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Soviet Russia was a military ally of Nazi Germany, on top of providing nazis with enormous amounts of materials at a great discount. Hitler and Stalin struck a pact to divide Europe between themselves. Hitler and Stalin attacked Poland together in 1939, thus Hitler and Stalin started WW2 together. Soviet Russia shares too much blame for WW2. The fact that "allies" were scheming against each other doesn't change anything. In 1941, Hitler struck first, but Stalin had all the intentions to attack Germany
It is impossible to prove. You again issued your fantasies as truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
As for the "bloody", as the proverb says "Не пеняй зеркало коли рожа крива", "If your face looks skewed, don't blame the mirror". Russian history is bloody and sick starting from the early days of Muscovy, propaganda soaked Russians don't show any signs of reflection, remorse or repentance, all the blood spilled by the effective tsars and soviet managers was to the Glory of Mother Russia, you are doomed to write another bloody chapter to your history because of that moral turpitude.
Stop hysterical. Russia defend the independence, as well as any independent country. Moscow was able to unite the land and to escape from the yoke of the Golden Horde. Ukraine itself has asked to be a part of Russia. 350 years (25 years ago) Russia has given you independence and Russian territory (Crimea, Donbass, Lugansk Kharkov, Odessa, etc.). You did not thank Russia, but turned into a rabid dogs and lost everything. Again Russia should solve your problems at the cost of Russian blood. Rather than build your country you always whining and looking for someone to sell for a higher cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Official Russian propaganda and education doesn't emphasize neither Soviet - Nazi collaboration nor savage treatment of the crippled Soviet soldiers by the Stalin's regime. It's doesn't fit sanitized paradigm of valor and glory.
The Soviet government made many mistakes, but also made a lot of good things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Russians viewing Stalin as an "effective" manager is reason #1 why anything marginally sane should isolate itself from the Russian lunacy. The ones who justify barbarity are doomed to repeat it.
Stalin directed country that won the German terrible monster. The Germans are very good soldiers. Very good. And beat them - great merit. For you - this is madness, for the Russians - this is independence.
Anti-maidan is a random collection of thugs given green light by the regime to unleash mob justice (upon direct command). As in Ukraine, Putin regime could claim that it has nothing to do with Anti-Maidan excesses. Technically, anti-Maidan mob is an unauthorized rally (it's blessed unofficially), yet you are confident about benign consequences of such thugs rallies for Russia.
Yes, people refer to them positively, because example of Ukraine exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Nonsense is when you deny the obvious. Russian nazism was and is cement of the Russia/Soviet/Post Soviet empires. http://ttolk.ru/?p=21993
I again repeat that Russia it is a multinational country. Any person can claim that he is Russians in the broad sense of the word, if person believes Russian culture main for themselves. Naturally, the Russians protect their culture. If you call it Nazis (nationalism), then you are not using the correct terms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Sure, you cannot give those details, since only Russian nazis kill young girls, there was nothing "household" about those killings, Russian propaganda would be all over the cases like that elsewhere, especially in Ukraine. You lie and demonize Ukrainian revolt against the corrupt Yanukovich regime, for most of the Russians Ukrainians who refuse assimilation and absorption by Russia are "nationalists". There is no civil war in Ukraine, there is a wicked attack by the Russian fascist regime supported by nazi crazed Russian population of Russia.
The Civil War began when the Ukrainian army began shelling the city and kill people. It is foolish to deny it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Bloodshed in Ukraine would not happen without Russian instigation and massive support. It would stop overnight if not for the Rabid Nazi Empire that keeps it burning.
Russia defends its interests and interesting Russian who live in Ukraine. This is the right decision. We can discuss and argue about the methods, but in general it is the right decision. You should not have to support the Ukrainian nationalists. It was your fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Putin is a genuine nazi as revealed in his words, thoughts and actions. Russia is a union of the russified tribes, Russification was frequently ugly and forced, enormous number of the ethnic slur in the Russian language reflects less than cordial relationship between Russian subjugators and minorities. Russian nazism is deep, the only difference, Russian nazism usually doesn't call for extermination (but there are exceptions).
But now we live in peace. Of course, wars happened. Wars always happen. But now Russian minority have the support and respect of the Slavs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Under Alexander III, Russification took a new turn. He believed that all cultures and nationalities within the empire should be wiped out (though not physically) and that all the people within the empire should become ‘Great Russians’. Russification had no time for small ethnic groups that were more concerned about their culture at the expense of Russia’s as a whole. To be loyal to Russia and therefore the tsar, you had to be a Russian first rather than, for example, a Kazak or Cossack
And is it an occasion to accuse the the Russians in demonism? This is ridiculous. At that time, England had slaves and plantations, and the United States destroyed the Indians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Please no nonsense about "military coup" without providing exact number of tanks, missile launchers, artillery pieces, troops etc..
In this case, we need to talk about the number of militants and the number of US dollars, not about tanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Comrade Frolov, you know really well that any average Russian forum is full of the average Russians insulting the rest of the world, especially Ukrainians, in any imaginable way.
Long time ago, I gave you the link to this THE RABIDIEST of the RABID Russian forum where Russian nazism rules supreme. And that's a citizen forum, it's not a specialized Russian nazi forum. That's how sick average Russians are: • Can you imagine how sick are the card holding Russian nazis?
There are also other forums. Most Russians do not interesting what's going on in Ukraine, and they do not want to watch the TV news.
Ukraine itself has asked to be a part of Russia. 350 years (25 years ago) Russia has given you independence and Russian territory (Crimea, Donbass, Lugansk Kharkov, Odessa, etc.).
It is new treatment of history in putin's school textbooks?
Quote:
Again Russia should solve your problems at the cost of Russian blood.
And its only a start Ukraine is ready to spill Russian blood infinitely, before full deliverance of Russian occupation.
Unarmed civilians vs crack riot police. That's how military coup look like, huh?
Yes, armed militants against the police, which did not open fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
That's a lame response. Since 15th century Muscovy was born in treachery, barbarity and lies does it make it to be nazi? Don't be ridiculous. As for NATO, you make up stuff. 1) NATO didn't give such a promise. 2) NATO didn't seek expansion, Eastern Europeans were seeking NATO, they know what Russia is all about. Where Estonia would have been without NATO membership? 3) You omit #1 reason Russia objects NATO, a genuine reason. Russia hopes to re-establish its imperial sphere of influence. A neutral, defenseless country is much easier to undermine and to incorporate in the Reich, see Ukraine.
NATO was created as a military alliance against Russia. Gorbachev received a verbal promise that NATO would not expand. These promises have been broken. Your accusations of barbarism begins to pall. I'm starting to believe that you are emotionally unhealthy man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Speaking of treachery and lies, lets look at the treaties, ratified and signed treaties not wishful BS, Russia trashed just recently to have a little victorious annexation and war.
1. Budapest Memorandum. The agreement states that the signatory countries of Russia, U.S. and U.K. “reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine” Russian 'Invasion' Breaks Budapest Memorandum, May Prompt NATO Action
2. Russia-Ukraine Friendship treaty, 1997. Under Article 2, the neighbors agreed to "respect each other's territorial integrity, and confirm the inviolability of the borders existing between them."
3. Black Sea Fleet agreements. Russia was permitted to station a maximum of 25,000 troops, 132 armored combat vehicles and 24 pieces of artillery at its military facilities in Crimea.
But these military forces were required to "respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, honor its legislation and preclude interference in the internal affairs of Ukraine." Furthermore, Russian military personnel had to show their "military identification cards" when crossing the Ukrainian-Russian border.
4. OSCE statute. The OSCE has 57 member states, including Russia and Ukraine. The Final Act obligates its signatories to "refrain…from the threat or use of force" against each other. According to the act, participating states "regard as inviolable one another's frontiers" and "will refrain now and in the future from assaulting those frontiers." They "will respect the territorial integrity of each of the participating states" and "will likewise refrain from making each other's territory the object of military occupation."Bound by treaty: Russia, Ukraine and Crimea | Europe | DW.DE | 11.03.2014
5.The United States accused Russia of violating a historic nuclear test ban treaty by testing a ground-launched cruise missileUS: Russia Violated Nuclear Treaty
6. Minsk 1 and Minsk 2.
Russia did not violate the sovereignty of Ukraine. Crimea came from Ukraine through a referendum. The remaining the charges are far-fetched or not provable (as Minsk-1 and Minsk-2).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
Is it enough of lies and treachery for Russia to be a nazi (according to your rationale)?
Of course not! You use this word inappropriately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee
To lie is Russian. Cynical lies and treachery are as Russian as vodka.
I'm starting to believe that you are emotionally unhealthy man.
Last edited by Maksim_Frolov; 03-11-2015 at 12:52 AM..
I graduated from school at the beginning of Putin's rule. I do not know that now in school textbooks. And what is wrong in this sentence?
Illiteracy means has reached and up to the Higher school.
That is the imagination of Russian ideologists which is not having the attitudes to a reality.
Quote:
Yes, you are heroes. You have already shown how you are able to kill the citizens of Donetsk.
It is new treatment of history in putin's school textbooks?
I understand Ukrainians would love to re-write history today in more convenient for them way, but history is history.
Since Wikipedia has been "edited" on a subject yet again I see in February ( I'm sure by pious Ukrainians, trying to twist the subject yet again to serve their today's purposes better,) I'll turn to a history book - not "Putin's" but American one.
So this is what is says on a subject;
"In 1649 the Zaporozhian cossaks chose as their hetman Bogdan Khmelnitsky, whose family had suffered cruelly at the hands of Polish noblemen, to lead them in a fight to recover their autonomy. The entire Ukraine rose in revolt agaisnt Polish domination. Peasants fearing the approach of serfdom and even Tatars from Crimea jpined the Hetman and his Zaporozhian host. Khmelnitsky was successful, at least for a while, in obtaininag the restauration of Cossack autonomy and raising the number of Cossacks which Wassaw consented to register to fourty thousand.
Because the Cossacks could not hope to maintain their independence of the Poles for long, Khmelnitsky offered the Ukraine to Alexis as a protectorat of Russia. But, with the Polish frontier no father away than Smolensk, Moscow hesitated to receive the gift for fear of inviting attack from the west. Khmelnitsky prodded Alexis to action by threatening to offer his allegiance to the Turkish Sultan and even talked of joining the Poles in a war against Russia should Moscow spurn his offer. A Zemsky Sobor urged Alexis to receive the Ukraine and, in 1654, Khmelnitsky and the tzar came to terms. Moscow granted autonomy to the Host, recognized 60 thousand registered Cossacks, and receive the Oath of allegiance. The Hetman promised not to deal with Poland or Turkey except through Moscow."
So there you have it - "the attitudes to a reality," "illiteracy" and all.
Questions?
So there you have it - "the attitudes to a reality," "illiteracy" and all.
Questions?
If to discount that Americans are interested in history of the East Europe very little, which for them is taught by natives from Russia , supposing except for semantic still and grammatic mistakes... If it is short - the Contract has not been signed by Russian tsar so cannot have any legal value.
If to discount that Americans are interested in history of the East Europe very little, which for them is taught by natives from Russia , supposing except for semantic still and grammatic mistakes...
I have news for you - Americans have professors in Russian history too, and this book has been published like in the fifties))))
Quote:
If it is short - the Contract has not been signed by Russian tsar so cannot have any legal value.
Whom should I trust on a subject I wonder, - you or Ph.D?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'll turn to a history book - not "Putin's" but American one.
