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the world once also supported Saddam Hussein as well, and the world supports the brutal dictatorship of the Saudi Arabian regime... This is why Russia having troops in Ukraine is bad, yet the US having troops in Syria is good.
The U.S. claimed Saddam had bio, chem weapons and WMDs, non were found, but old Saddam was hanged by orders of Bush.
9 of the 11 hijackers of 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia.
Yeah, I'm sure those 21 civilians who were killed and 86 wounded (so far, the toll keeps going up) in the attack on Mariupol's outdoor market this morning really want "Donbas" to be "independent".
What, this is the first military action in which civilians ever have been killed? Why all the outrage? Will I find posts on this forum of you expressing your outrage over civilians killed in other combat zones? Probably not. In your world, Donbas civilian casualties are an "atrocity", but US airstrikes killing civilians is just "collateral damage".
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
My relatives are from Mariupol. They are Ukrainian, and they strongly support Ukraine. Thank God they were not in the marketplace this morning - but others like them, ordinary people going about their weekly shopping, were, and lost their lives because of it. The attack did not come from Ukrainian forces, but from terrorists funded by Russia and supplied with Russian weapons by Russia.
Oh yippy year, my relatives are Ukrainian as well, Dnepropetrovsk, I just spent two glorious weeks there. Uneventful I will say, thankfully. I can say on the Internet anything I want what my relatives think about the situation; so how in the hell does that matter?
I have no idea why you keep blabbing the "terrorist" lingo, that has been overplayed by about seven years now, classifying everyone who disagrees with your ideology as "terrorists". It really says something when the US does not even classify them as such. It is a separatists war, not all that uncommon in history, even Ukrainians launched one before.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
As did the attack on the Debaltseve kindergarten yesterday - thank goodness the small children were gone, but their little beds and toys are blown apart and are covered with glass and rubble now. Debaltseve is a small town of 30,000 (normal population, smaller now due to many leaving for safety), but is strategically located. It was the site of a massacre a few months ago, again thanks to so-called "rebel" forces funded and supplied and led and directed by Russia.
Yea, you have the same outrage for Kiev forces and their attacks on civilian areas? Have you posted one time your outrage at this? Probably not. In your world, it is legitimate use of force when Kiev blows apart civilian areas, but it is an outrage when the separatists do it. Kiev has been attacking civilian areas for months.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
Many of these "rebels" have no connection with Ukraine at all, but are paid mercenaries from shadowy, extremely poor third world countries which were once part of the former Soviet Union. But all are under the direction of Russia, and Russia answers to puppet master Putin's call right now.
You really love making stuff up, you fit right in with Petro's crew. It must feel nice to sit back and think that "many" of those rebelling have no connection in Ukraine, as it assists in your argument that the people in Donbas have no legitimate complaint with Kiev. Fact is, having an elected leader the overwhelming number of people in Donbas supported overthrown, is what led to those same people rebelling against Kiev's rule. Fact is, if there would have been no coup, none of this would ever have happened. It is 2015 now, the same year as the next election was scheduled.
It would have been real simple to wait for the next election, but problem is, the coup supporters would not have had their person elected because they would not have had the votes to do so. Donbas, an economic engine of Ukraine, does not wish to be associated with Kiev anymore, it is pretty simple.
This hostility towards Kiev is not new, of course if you have actually been to Ukraine and traveled around the Donbas area, you would have known that. They have not thought of themselves as part of Ukraine since 1991.
The people of Maidan were civilians, students, small business people, teachers, clergy, ordinary people who were sick of corruption and Russian influence and who wanted honesty, clean dealings, progress and democracy for their country (which I doubt is your country). Putin and his lackeys couldn't stand that, so interfered in the affairs of a sovereign, independent country by funding and supplying puppets who had no qualms about making false claims like yours, who had no distaste for killing innocents (see the Mariupol marketplace, just this morning), for corruption and evil, and who had no problem with twisting history, lying outright, and invading, bringing rigged elections, threats to any who opposed them, censorship and rewriting of children's textbooks, death, starvation, disease, and destruction.
How did the Orange Revolution turn out? Those same "civilians, students, small business people, teachers, clergy, ordinary people" who tossed out Yanukovich? Oh yes, the Orange Revolution turned out so bad, they REELECTED YANUKOVICH!
I agreed 100% with the Orange Revolt because of the election fraud, but the same idiots who were all "for Ukraine, blame Russia" display pure idiocy, the same idiocy displayed now. Ukraine's entire domestic policy revolves around "blame Russia", this hop on the nationalism bandwagon did not work in after the Orange Revolt, and it is not going to work now, will not work ever.
The problem with Ukraine are many Ukrainians seem to forget there are other groups in Ukraine, some of which their roots predate Ukraine and even the USSR. This thought process gets worst the further west you go, Kiev can be highly annoying as well with this depending on who you encounter.
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Originally Posted by CraigCreek
We do not have government censorship of news in the United States. Our networks are not government controlled, and are free to report whatever they deem newsworthy. Foreign news sources are readily available online. Very different from your part of the world, I realize....where Internet sites are routinely blocked, stories are written with a very obvious slant and often contain untruths which favor your government, and other stories don't make the news at all.
Stop your lies. Are a few rubles sufficient pay for your conscience, supposing you have one? Learn the truth - it's not what you are being paid to post here.
Agree that the US does not censor the news, the news sucks of course, but that is not fault of the gov.
But you are incorrect regarding the lack of access to news in Russia; a person is free to browse any news site as they wish, there is no blocking (as of January, 2015 when I was there) of any western news site. I have never encountered a blocked news site.
However, Ukraine has blocked Russian media; you have any outrage over this censorship?
Now tell me this; if so many Ukrainians are against Donbas, why are not there millions of them volunteering for the military? Why all the threats to get people to join? You would think the way Petro and the Western media portrays it, every Ukrainian is is rabid to attack the separatists. Fact is, their mobilizations are utter failures, and those who do go often go due to social threats against them and their family. If you truly have family there and know people, you know darn well people are thinking of how to get out of the mobilization if called up.
I really dont like where this is headed:
"This week, a delegation from the US Army Command, headed by Commander of US Army Europe...will arrive in Ukraine,"
Now tell me this; if so many Ukrainians are against Donbas, why are not there millions of them volunteering for the military? Why all the threats to get people to join? You would think the way Petro and the Western media portrays it, every Ukrainian is is rabid to attack the separatists. Fact is, their mobilizations are utter failures, and those who do go often go due to social threats against them and their family. If you truly have family there and know people, you know darn well people are thinking of how to get out of the mobilization if called up.
This is the third time I've heard this type of information. Another individual stated that many officers officially retire when called up and people with relatives in Belarus and Russia flee to said countries to avoid conscription. It's all kind of foggy and I found nothing definite but some of the laws passed such as officers authorized to shoot soldiers tells me it's not going so well.
Can any Russian speakers find out about this subject? Information is hard to find apparently.
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