Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Crimean war was never about Crimea, it was about taming Russian Imperialism in the Near East. Also, Crimea played an important role in Greek and Turkey history, so what? It's not 19th century. Putin' stupidity has Planetary repercussions. Mankind has so freaking many issues, and a little Russian Fuhrer tries to replay 19th century real-politics on a sinking Titanic, Putin' (and Russian people) idiocy would inevitably lead to more military spending and waste at the worst time possible.
It seems some are not familiar with destruction form both war and revolt; they look alike really. In this case it was coup in another part of Ukraine that took over by force. The Crimea was once part of Russia and largely Russian citizens. While I agree Putin is a KGB trained goon still few observers believe the vote for joining Russia wouldn't have resulted in same even if we ran it. Certainly more democratic than a forced coup by group(s) using arms.They signed that treaty when another government was in place always remember. We never recognized cuba's revolution .
I don't see your point. Selective citations give distorted view no matter whom and what you cite.
Unless I cite you of course. Everything else is a "distorted view."
Quote:
And yet you failed to cement selective citations of you choice with logic, more over you managed to contradict yourself, all within the space allowed by a few sentences.
And you failed to produce so far anything in support of your own fantasies, while everything I quote even from Wikipedia proves my point.
You are so blind in your narrow nationalism. Even assuming that your recitation of the links of Kievan Rus' with Crimea are correct. So what? It was more than 1000 years ago. Show me another country appealing to the murky 1000 years old history to settle issues in the present? Even Israel doesn't do that.
Ukraine and Ukrainians have just as many "rights" for Kievan Rus' heritage, if not more, as Russians do. Russian "privatization" of Kievan Rus' history and heritage would be just insanely ridiculous if not for the spread of that insanity among the Russians (in the sense of the Russian state) people.
You are confusing. Russians believe that the Crimea - Russia on the grounds that he was so the last three centuries. Yes, Russian love their story and think that Kievan Rus is Russia. But you do not have to add here nationalism. Many centuries the Slavs living near the Finno-Ugric, Tatars, Baltic tribes, etc. There are many mixed marriages. I would even say that the Russian - is not a nationality, but belonging to the Russian culture.
In Ukraine, someone killed Alexander Muzychko (Bily). Perhaps Tymoshenko and security forces have decided to remove the right sector of the political arena.
Sorry, it's not trivial matter to transition from "communal/state" property to (wild) capitalism. Who gets property & power, who controls resources and production capacity, who owns the most desirable chunks of the land, who dies working in deplorable conditions, and so on, the list is endless. I'm sorry, both Russia and Ukraine didn't need any help as far as destruction. It's so easy to complain about evil West destroying mother Russia, it's so much harder, and it's so much more dangerous to object local bosses taking over controls of the plant you work at, and things of that nature. Russians destroyed themselves (and so did Ukrainians), that's the truth, the role of the West is tertiary if any.
So you think that whatever took place there - like "local bosses taking control" was totally spontaneous and local, with no decisions made and implemented in "higher places" like Washington, with no people in Russia handpicked and backed by American bankers et al? You are not too familiar with a subject I'm sure.
Quote:
Do Ukrainian people have a say in your grand geo-political scheme? Or it's just about the sacred right of Russia to control Ukraine? Russia represents the future of semi-criminal, corrupt "marriage" of capitalism, feudalism and imperialism cemented with soviet-nazi rhetoric and lack of individual rights. It's an extremely unappealing concoction, even if you think that USA is a throne of evil. Large chunk of Ukraine wants to separate from that. Do they have any rights to control the destiny of their country?
I'd like to quote in response one Ukrainian here, who expressed his opinion on the matter on this site;
"The West turned into complete compulsive lair, because its actions towards the third world are nonpunishable and unrestricted by anything. Putin mocks Muricans by their own imperial demagogy while working on creation of his own cozy empire, as ALL states that have such an opportunity do. The inviolability of borders is something that's convenient for everyone, but there should be certain sense behind that inviolability, i.e. every state should have the interest of its citizens in heart. The interest of ethnic groups, regions and ruling classes, their desire to coexist together - that's what should define these borders, not just the recognition of the U.N. and bureaucracy that's interested in controlling the biggest possible number of the subjects.
The disintegration of Ukraine during the independence didn't subside, it became only deeper, and the most important part of it was the fragmentation of economy. The regions are not interconnected by the same economic management, their economic branches differ greatly and with it differs the demand for system of education, orientation on external markets prevails over domestic markets, the trading partners are opposite to each other. The "cultural" differences of the population are cultivated by political windbags according to the orders of the financial backers and reflect the opposite economic interests of general population and oligarchs.
In our situation of economic and military dependence on Russia and Europe, the stability of our state is possible only in case of established balance of the interests of these both sides. As soon as Europe and the US decided that they can elbow Russia out with the help of the "revolutionaries," they've immediately got the unforeseen complications, although it's still not a fact that the partition of Ukraine will upset them too much.
If we are talking about the preservation of Ukraine, then we have to get away from the secretive banditry at the manger with all the money grabbing, and move to a grass-roots democracy, gathering people for referendums and asking them to vote on specific matters, even such as whether they want to live together and on what conditions. Our petty politicians however are not capable of such things, therefore we are going to be the observers in the process of our enslavement by all eager foreign masters."
So I don't see how Ukrainians been so dependent moneywise on foreign powers have any abilities to control the destiny of their country.
It's you are pretending that you have no capacity to comprehend simple facts of the modern world. Like all those International Treaties Russia signed or inherited from USSR. Prior to Putin' blitzkrieg, European nations came to the conclusion (paid with 50 millions of lives) that current borders should remain intact, there should be no wars (even bloodless) to change borders, regardless of sad history and made up claims. That was a corner stone of the international security for 70 years, foundation that Putin' Russia just trashed.
Sudetenland was German for more than 700 years, it belonged to Czech Republic for less than 18 years, so what?
Also you pretend that you have no mental capacity to understand the key differences between Yugoslavia and Crimea. People of former Yugoslavia killed each other on the large scale in the name of ethnic purity, 35,000 bombs or whatever number stopped that barbarity, whether you admit that or not. NATO didn't annex any piece of the former Yugoslavia. Russia invaded peaceful Crimea, the fact that Ukrainian army (saturated with "oppressed" Crimean residents) didn't resist doesn't change the fact that Russia risked a possibility of mass casualties in the name of National Greatness and Glory as perceived by the inflamed nationalist minds.
Do you believe what you say for yourself?Yugoslavs were killing each other? Just as in Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan? We know what democracy is in your understanding. So you need to throw bombs 35000 (civilians) to establish democracy? Crimea joined himself and peacefully. so no need to rave about democracy.
In Ukraine, someone killed Alexander Muzychko (Bily). Perhaps Tymoshenko and security forces have decided to remove the right sector of the political arena.
Yes. We already know that he was killed by police during detention. It was special operation which was performed by our police and division "Falcon".
In general it is very similar to that it too compromised the power, and it occurred not incidentally.
Question only in that: whether knew about it "The right sector". If it isn't coordinated with it, can be very dangerous if it starts revenging.
In Ukraine, someone killed Alexander Muzychko (Bily). Perhaps Tymoshenko and security forces have decided to remove the right sector of the political arena.
Yes, the new government of Ukraine. He managed to make a video where warned that wants to kill. Ukrainian authorities would accuse Russia of his death. This he said.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
