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Old 03-26-2014, 01:34 PM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,616,564 times
Reputation: 3146

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Quote:
Neither the old Soviet nor the Western system makes any real sense.
Well for the first part...yes. Smart of the Soviets to dump that former 'ism'. Not sure what they have today though. My opinion is they really kind of like the Western approach (Mr. Putin has to love all those bags of money coming in with his energy lines!) but it morphs into some sort of Russo-oriented version of capitalism run aground where the average workingman sees the 'olis' running around with bags of money but the gelt doesn't apparently filter down to the lower and middle classes. Another bad image then for the West.

But I have to say this acute conflict that has erupted know indicates how far off the track Russia is when it comes to be 'connected' in the world. I just don't think she is doing well at all. Take away, energy, oil, natual resoucres, what does she have? She doesn't seem to innnovate. Arguably most innovation in business, technology, financial and economic sectors come from the West. They seem to offer the world insights to do better, to achieve, to innovate. And Russia? What does she offer to the world? So if it is a battle between the Eastern system vs the Western system I think there is no comparison. She is losing badly at it shows. At this point sorry she's acting like a troublesome child, acting out and highly narcissistic.

Getting out from the jaws of communism no doubt was a great effort and I commend them. Unfortunately, the country is probably still feeling the effects of that disaster and not comfortable that they now have to do new things and find new ways of ordering the country in this chaotic 21st century environment. First thing they should do is play responsibly and take responsibility for their country's rout in the East-West game. The blame game arguably is for chumps. I think they made a real bad wrong turn. They're still paying for it.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:45 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,616,985 times
Reputation: 862
Collected evidence in this article to illustrate how the "Evromaydan" in 2014, which resulted in Ukraine carried out a pro-American coup d'état was organized by the United States.
http://ruxpert.ru/Поддержка_Евромайдана_американцами
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:54 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,616,985 times
Reputation: 862
"Kiberberkut" opened correspondence "evromaydanovtsev" with American sponsors (video)

«
Hackers have published correspondence chapter Ukrainian NGO "Training Centre for Human Rights" Edward Egorova colleagues Fund "National support of American democracy", which is funded by the U.S. Congress and the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine.
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Old 03-26-2014, 02:20 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Well for the first part...yes. Smart of the Soviets to dump that former 'ism'. Not sure what they have today though. My opinion is they really kind of like the Western approach (Mr. Putin has to love all those bags of money coming in with his energy lines!) but it morphs into some sort of Russo-oriented version of capitalism run aground where the average workingman sees the 'olis' running around with bags of money but the gelt doesn't apparently filter down to the lower and middle classes. Another bad image then for the West.

But I have to say this acute conflict that has erupted know indicates how far off the track Russia is when it comes to be 'connected' in the world. I just don't think she is doing well at all. Take away, energy, oil, natual resoucres, what does she have? She doesn't seem to innnovate. Arguably most innovation in business, technology, financial and economic sectors come from the West. They seem to offer the world insights to do better, to achieve, to innovate. And Russia? What does she offer to the world? So if it is a battle between the Eastern system vs the Western system I think there is no comparison. She is losing badly at it shows. At this point sorry she's acting like a troublesome child, acting out and highly narcissistic.

Getting out from the jaws of communism no doubt was a great effort and I commend them. Unfortunately, the country is probably still feeling the effects of that disaster and not comfortable that they now have to do new things and find new ways of ordering the country in this chaotic 21st century environment. First thing they should do is play responsibly and take responsibility for their country's rout in the East-West game. The blame game arguably is for chumps. I think they made a real bad wrong turn. They're still paying for it.
I think after the end of the SU they were not much better off than typical developing countries, awash in resources, but lagging technologically. It is rather difficult to just switch systems since there is no point in taking over another system. So they needed and still need to find their own system that makes sense to them. During such a switch there is always the risk of adopting too much from outside and thus repeating mistakes, selling one's soul for fast progress.

Basically it is even ok to stay at that level if the country has no aspirations to compete with the rest of the world. I mean, why would everyone want to play that destructive and pointless monopoly game that the West likes so much? That is why I said I don't see any point in the Western system, either. It brings about some pros, but also a whole lot of cons that people like to ignore or pretend to address with more of the same. There is no point in being innovative for the sake of being innovative. I can live without all the gadgets and crap that we have today. I would have no problem going back to analog, to the contrary.

But if Russia or any other developing country wants to compete globally, it is rather difficult to catch up. One can't simply say, ok, we have money, now let's develop, say, a CPU of the latest generation. A country has to grow into such industries, which takes decades, especially since the ones ahead do everything they can to keep the others down. That is probably why countries like China started by copying and spying, they realized that was the only way to catch up fast.
That is why Africa doesn't catch up, even Angola despite its money has to import almost everything. People just lack the detailed knowledge of what has been developed around the world over the past decades.

The best chances to catch up are during technological breaks, i.e. when the former leaders also have to switch to something new so that their know-how lead in older technologies becomes irrelevant. Unfortunately that doesn't happen too often. What would be best is resetting the access to technology on a regular basis, drastically slashing existing patents etc. so that every educated willing country can catch up to a level from which it can develop stuff on its own, and eventually overtake the former leaders if they are good at it.

But we don't want that, we do everything to keep others from catching up.
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:36 PM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,616,564 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Basically it is even ok to stay at that level if the country has no aspirations to compete with the rest of the world. I mean, why would everyone want to play that destructive and pointless monopoly game that the West likes so much?
But I'd suggest that competition in the West is the way innovation and economies develop. It seems to me that Russia has hard time navigating it. So do the Chinese for that matter since they 'copy' much from the West but yet have a hard time respecting copyrights and intellectual property. In some respects, it seems like the West is doing all the work and the the rest are getting a free ride.

Russia's apparent antipathy to the West could be the thing holding them back. You know the 'not invented here' syndrome cojld be in effect. Also, it would be nice if some oligarchs could at least for PR build a hospital for children with cancer. Good for Russo-capitalism and would show the world they don't care about lizard shoes or bespoke shirts and ties anymore....;-)...
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:43 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,107 times
Reputation: 1282
"Obama Deplores Russia’s ‘Brute Force’ in Ukraine"

"Just because Russia has a deep history with Ukraine does not mean it should be able to dictate Ukraine’s future. "

“Make no mistake: Neither the United States nor Europe has any interest in controlling Ukraine,” Mr. Obama said. “We have sent no troops there. What we want is for the Ukrainian people to make their own decisions, just like other free people around the world.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/wo...ma-europe.html
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Old 03-26-2014, 03:56 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
"Obama Deplores Russia’s ‘Brute Force’ in Ukraine"

"Just because Russia has a deep history with Ukraine does not mean it should be able to dictate Ukraine’s future. "

“Make no mistake: Neither the United States nor Europe has any interest in controlling Ukraine,” Mr. Obama said. “We have sent no troops there. What we want is for the Ukrainian people to make their own decisions, just like other free people around the world.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/27/wo...ma-europe.html
What you say doesn't mean ****, Barack. Everyone knows you are a liar.
No need to send troops, CIA, NGO's etc. are causing the trouble in the background.
Strange, some Ukrainians HAVE made their own decisions and nobody seems to be interested Make up your mind... There is no Ukrainian people, there are Ukrainian peopleS.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:02 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
But I'd suggest that competition in the West is the way innovation and economies develop. It seems to me that Russia has hard time navigating it. So do the Chinese for that matter since they 'copy' much from the West but yet have a hard time respecting copyrights and intellectual property. In some respects, it seems like the West is doing all the work and the the rest are getting a free ride.

Russia's apparent antipathy to the West could be the thing holding them back. You know the 'not invented here' syndrome cojld be in effect. Also, it would be nice if some oligarchs could at least for PR build a hospital for children with cancer. Good for Russo-capitalism and would show the world they don't care about lizard shoes or bespoke shirts and ties anymore....;-)...
Sorry, I don't see any model here. We have created an economic monster and nightmare in the West, economic fascism. Nothing that should be emulated by Russia or anyone else, frankly.

Your view on China is outdated, they are developing a lot on their own these days...

Plus, almost everything humans need has long been invented/developed. 95% of what is being developed today is just for fun and money, not stuff humans need.

Last edited by Neuling; 03-26-2014 at 04:32 PM..
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:24 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,107 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
What you say doesn't mean ****, Barack. Everyone knows you are a liar.
No need to send troops, CIA, NGO's etc. are causing the trouble in the background.
Strange, some Ukrainians HAVE made their own decisions and nobody seems to be interested Make up your mind... There is no Ukrainian people, there are Ukrainian peopleS.
Don't get so upset.

As they say: "Everybody lies, everybody dies..."
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:33 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
Don't get so upset.

As they say: "Everybody lies, everybody dies..."
There are lies and then there are lies...
Nor will I die
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