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I don't think a war for more Ukrainian territory is necessary. The connection between Crimea and Ukraine is not much better than the one between Crimea and Russia to the East. The Russians could provide gas, water, and electricity via Kerch or whatever that place is called
Now comes spring and summer, they have half a year or so to build such infrastructure underneath that 5 mile gap.
GK believes the West is to blame but we do know it 'takes two to tango.'
As I've said, I don't quite comprehend GK's posts, that's why I am skipping them for the most part, so I am not sure what you are talking about here.
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Recently I've been reading of this call to 'history' that Russia is hearing and allegedly guides its motives today. But doing it at the risk of global instability? I mean Russia is upsetting alot of breakfasts, lunches and dinners around Europe and in the United States. The walls are rattling with his military takeover and incursion to the Crimea. Is the response then to financial/economic issues then the same as fighting for territory and Rus back in those previous centuries? Apparently, if the country believed they were hurt so bad or that they will pay somehwo for Ukraines turn westward. But to annex an entire section of a sovereign country for that?
But Ukraine is precisely about a lot of "financial/economic issues" that Russia pursues, and Crimea has a lot to do with her geopolitical interests ( Sebastopol's port, anyone?)
I believe we are dealing here with the subject of Imperialism 101, although the leading Western nations might think that this age is behind them, and that whatever they've already received in history as the result of colonialism or slavery doesn't count any longer and the money with the help of which they control the world came to them as the result of "freedom and democracy." However Russian capitalism that came on the world stage recently ( or rather returned on the world stage) as vicious and aggressive as it is, should probably serve as a sound reminder that the wars between nations came in place long before there was "communism" or "fascism." Initially, they were all about just that - "financial/ economic issues" and as long as those issues are not settled, the "global stability" is a skin deep.
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Just trying to understand the country. And really are we looking at the 'real' Russia or just a Vladian interpretation of it now in its behavior?
Can you define "real Russia" please.
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Curious if Medvedev would have pulled this off.
Everyone in Russia knows for long time that Medvedev is no one; it's only the naive West was harboring some hopes for some reforms, that this puppet somehow supposedly could pull through.
I think you are alluding to the voucher privatization scheme suggested by the American advisers. Russians eagerly accepted the idea, but of course it's Washington' fault.
And by "Russians" you mean of course a group of thugs with whom Americans shook hands behind the closed doors?
Because obviously the rest of Russian population didn't have a clue about these dirty deals - they've learned about them when it was already too late and the whole nation was robbed dry as the result of them.
Yet you are screaming here all along that "Ukrainians are entitled to their choices."
So what's so special about the Ukrainians that they should be "entitled to their choices" while Russians were not? Oh I know - because you've said so, and because that's something that serves the US interests. That's about all that stands behind your "logic."
And by "Russians" you mean of course a group of thugs with whom Americans shook hands behind the closed doors?
Because obviously the rest of Russian population didn't have a clue about these dirty deals - they've learned about them when it was already too late and the whole nation was robbed dry as the result of them.
Yet you are screaming here all along that "Ukrainians are entitled to their choices." So what's so special about the Ukrainians that they should be "entitled to their choices" while Russians were not? Oh I know - because you've said so, and because that's something that serves the US interests. That's about all that stands behind your "logic."
I must say, I'm not following you.
Can you clarify, please?
I understand that you feel bitter because of what happened to Russia, but what is wrong with Ukrainians having choices and some basic human rights?
Last edited by movingwiththewind; 03-25-2014 at 09:01 PM..
Comrades Erasure and comrade from Kamchatka agree with that statement. Comrade Erasure is absolutely adamant about validity of that silly claim. It's not my imagination, lots and lots of Russians share that sentiment.
The situation in Ukraine is such an utter chaos now that it's not even necessary to comment it, one has just to watch incredously the drama unfold day after day :
But Ukraine is precisely about a lot of "financial/economic issues" that Russia pursues, and Crimea has a lot to do with her geopolitical interests ( Sebastopol's port, anyone?)
Yes we certainly can see that and I perfectly understand it. But I respectively submit Russia is 'acting out' her pursuits in such a way that her frustrations in the European, Asian and global sphere are leading to and exhibiting aggression. Their recent behavior invites many to question their 'intentions'. That is not a good scenario for 'peace in the valley'.
Since the destruction of the USSR, I've always believed Russia harbored and developed such a resentment of the West that to a man like Mr. Putin raised in the 'glory' years, his psychology is now coming off as the 'real' Russia. The concept of 'Russia' is aggradized now by one man and his autocratic rule. The Russian Parliament alas simply rubber-stamps whatever he wants done. Anyone who disagrees can be lumped in with the same old same old, i'e. traitor to the Motherland. It's a tired mantra. No doubt he thinks he's tied in to the average Russian workingman trying to make a living for his family and to enjoy life. I'd suggest there are some cracks in there in the populace. From the looks of it, Crimea is just a quick 'high' and does nothing for the day to day of the life Russian people.
Putin's foray into Crimea showed him something about the West. They'd better make sure they have a 'plan' which covers a few contingencies in case of 'unpredictable' Russian jaunts. They have to know where tio draw a line.
If the West had wanted peace in the valley, they would not have pushed eastwards, not even incorporated any former Soviet countries into the EU and Nato despite their applications. Just because the SU ceased to exist, does not mean Russians ceased to exist. After all, it is foolish to think that everyone in the SU was against the SU, far from it. And it was not only Russians that liked the SU, despite the problems there. I am not even sure most Russians are doing better today, or that they are happier than they used to be. The Western ideology comes with its own set of problems, and many people that used to welcome it initially have come to rethink their attitude by now. Neither the old Soviet nor the Western system makes any real sense.
I read today that the two former German chancellors Schröder and Schmidt have expressed their understanding for Russia's Ukraine politics and condemned sanctions against Russia, just like the majority of Germans reject sanctions against Russia according to a survey.
If the West had wanted peace in the valley, they would not have pushed eastwards, not even incorporated any former Soviet countries into the EU and Nato despite their applications. Just because the SU ceased to exist, does not mean Russians ceased to exist. After all, it is foolish to think that everyone in the SU was against the SU, far from it. And it was not only Russians that liked the SU, despite the problems there. I am not even sure most Russians are doing better today, or that they are happier than they used to be. The Western ideology comes with its own set of problems, and many people that used to welcome it initially have come to rethink their attitude by now. Neither the old Soviet nor the Western system makes any real sense.
Push eastwards how? Into what countries? Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, The Baltic States? These countries belong to the West, not to Russia. The former Eastern Bloc joined NATO and the EU as fast as they could, so they would never be under the yoke of Russia again in the future. Not a single former Soviet Union country is in the EU or NATO, except for the Baltic States which were illegally occupied by the Soviet Union, so I don't understand what your point is.
Nobody's claiming that the West doesn't have its problems, but hardly anyone in Poland or Slovakia for example wants to return to the old days.
Push eastwards how? Into what countries? Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, The Baltic States? These countries belong to the West, not to Russia. The former Eastern Bloc joined NATO and the EU as fast as they could, so they would never be under the yoke of Russia in the future. Not a single former Soviet Union country is in the EU or NATO, except for the Baltic States which were illegally occupied by the Soviet Union, so I don't understand what your point is.
Nobody's claiming that the West doesn't have its problems, but hardly anyone in Poland or Slovakia for example wants to return to the old days.
I don't think Poland etc. belong to the West. To me no Slavic country belongs to the West (which is fine, though, West is not a synonym for good or whatever some naive people seem to think).
They joined the West because they needed lots of money, not because of Russia. They could have stayed independent countries and nothing would have happened to them. Just like the Western half of the Ukraine now. There was no reason for it to break its close relations with Russia, it was an independent country. But it's governments screwed up big time and so they need a lot of money because they are broke. That is when Barroso, Washington's ***** in Europe, asked them to decide between Europe and Russia, driving the ethnic wedge even deeper.
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