Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:28 AM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,586,726 times
Reputation: 7457

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Actually this is correct and Russia is the only true and pure descendent of Kievan Rus. So when someone like Van Rompuy is saying that "Ukraine's future belongs with the EU" and not with Russia, he is making a mistake of historical proportions. We are yet to see the consequences of this mistake.
That's a Russian Nazi in a single paragraph. Some dubious and selective appeals to 1000 years old history, mixed with lies and insane claims, sprinkled with logical inconsistencies and, voila, ideological foundations for the Russian Empire if not for the Russian Nazism are ready.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:31 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,616,101 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
That's a Russian Nazi in a single paragraph. Some dubious and selective appeals to 1000 years old history, mixed with lies and insane claims, sprinkled with logical inconsistencies and, voila, ideological foundations for the Russian Empire if not for the Russian Nazism are ready.
You stupid or pretending? over the past few hundred years, the Crimea was Russian and only 23, he was Ukrainian.35,000 bombs on Yugoslavia, throw bombs, or throw on 0 Crimea-fascism which one? first or second is fascism?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:34 AM
 
4,449 posts, read 4,615,477 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Facts!First contacts Kievan Rus with the Crimea and the Black Sea coast dated to the middle of VIII century . At the beginning of the IX century , with the rise of the Khazar Khanate , begins the struggle for influence in the region between the three major forces : the Byzantines (who had trading colonies throughout the southern coast of Crimea ) , Khazars , Pechenegs and Russian .In 1016, Vladimir's son Mstislav Svyatoslavich using fleet sent by the Byzantine emperor Basil the Sea of Azov , the Khazar army defeated and captured the Khazar warlord George Tsulo who supported antivizantiysky rebellion in Chersonesos . Khazaria lost all Crimea . Remains of the Khazars in 1079 captured in Tmutarakan Prince Oleg and Svyatoslav , who fought with the great prince of Kiev Vsevolod . Khazars killed brother Oleg and gave the prince himself in Constantinople. In 1083 he returned to Oleg Svyatoslavich Tmutarakan and destroyed all the Khazars. From this moment khazars longer appear in the sources.Learn the right story .
GK..

This history is in the 11th. We are 10 centuries way from that period. Not sure if you are suggesting that conditions Russia is experiencing harks back to those olden days of yore where Russia had to fight tooth and nail against its enemies for every patch of land on and around its soil? Frankly, who is doing what to who now? There have been no incursions on Russian soil, no armed invasion force at its gates. What is Russia afraid of?

Seems like Russian policy today is like going back to a time warp where the solutuion that worked then just can't cut it now in the 21st century world of today. I'd suggest taking a look at Muslim history. They are far from what they were in history.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,301 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You always have fantastic figures. It is a pity that my accounts department can not carry so fantastic estimates.you know how to do cadastral valuation and accounting?
You probably after all badly understand Russia and Ukraine were how closely connected. Ukraine was "an economic colony" Russia therefore this figure is quite real.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:39 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,616,101 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
GK..

This history is in the 11th. We are 10 centuries way from that period. Not sure if you are suggesting that conditions Russia is experiencing harks back to those olden days of yore where Russia had to fight tooth and nail against its enemies for every patch of land on and around its soil? Frankly, who is doing what to who now? There have been no incursions on Russian soil, no armed invasion force at its gates. What is Russia afraid of?

Seems like Russian policy today is like going back to a time warp where the solutuion that worked then just can't cut it now in the 21st century world of today. I'd suggest taking a look at Muslim history. They are far from what they were in history.
This is one of the well-known events. there is a little-known ancient events. It has no relation to the current situation. story asked, I answered. Why do you blame Russia in this conflict? Not defeated Russian Ukraine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:43 AM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,616,101 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post
You probably after all badly understand Russia and Ukraine were how closely connected. Ukraine was "an economic colony" Russia therefore this figure is quite real.
Is Ukraine has not received income from Russia? These figures are taken from the sky!
Did you know that during the Soviet Union in Western Ukraine people to live better than in Russia?
The Baltic republics as well. Ask them economists today - where they were profitable is in the USSR, or the EU. You'd be surprised.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:47 AM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,586,726 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Not worth sharing Russian, Ukrainian and Belarus - all Russian.You forgot that the Crimea was several hundred Russian and 54 years? and until 1990 he was only formally Ukrainian.
As I said, all are Russian in the sense of an adjective derived from a noun "Rus", representing ancient and long time gone confederation called "Kievan Rus". Neither is "Russian" in the sense of belonging to "Greater Russia" as represented by the modern Russian Federation, neither is Russian in the cultural-linguistic sense, meaning neither is "derived" from the culture and language of the Russians living in the Russian Federation. It would be a totally ridiculous suggestion, since literature Russian language is a designed product of (imported) intelligentsia, it's not a product of authentic language "evolution", Russian culture (as Westerners understand it) is little more than barbarized Western European culture transplanted on the Russian soil. It's not exaggeration to say that Imperial Russia destroyed authentic Russian cultures to create "collective" monster they claim was always there.

You forgot about all Crimean history prior to 1789. Also you forgot that Russian territory proper belonged to many Empires in the past. Do Mongols still have a legitimate right for Moscow? Or perhaps Finland should claim it, since there was virtually no Slavic population around Moscow 1000 years ago? These historical excursions to "justify" Russian imperialism is ridiculous. Russian broke international law, Russia create dangerous precedent, Russia threw in the garbage can 70 years of post WWII peace 20 millions of the Russians died for. Yup, I'm pretty sure they would be excited to know that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,301 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Is Ukraine has not received income from Russia? These figures are taken from the sky!
Did you know that during the Soviet Union in Western Ukraine people to live better than in Russia?
The Baltic republics as well. Ask them economists today - where they were profitable is in the USSR, or the EU. You'd be surprised.
And again you speak on EU when I spoke about property of Russia in Ukraine....
Probably the good doctor already here is necessary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 12:05 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
GK..

This history is in the 11th. We are 10 centuries way from that period.
But if you look at today's world - it's the picture of the consequences of what took place much, much earlier in history. The Roman Catholicism, colonizations, the reformation of Church, the Puritans and the rest. That's why it pays to look into Russia's/Ukraine's past as well.

Quote:
Not sure if you are suggesting that conditions Russia is experiencing harks back to those olden days of yore where Russia had to fight tooth and nail against its enemies for every patch of land on and around its soil? Frankly, who is doing what to who now? There have been no incursions on Russian soil, no armed invasion force at its gates. What is Russia afraid of?
Since American Empire ascended on throne to rule the world ( or at least tried to) the wars are increasingly not fought with conventional weapons; they fought by financial means. And in the nineties there was clearly an attempt made to destroy Russia by financial means. I see this latest attempt to separate Ukraine from Russia ( again, by financial means) as the continuity of the previous attempt directed at destruction of Russia as geopolitical super-power. And I am not even a Russian "patriot," yet that's what I am observing for the last twenty years or so.

Quote:
Seems like Russian policy today is like going back to a time warp where the solutuion that worked then just can't cut it now in the 21st century world of today. I'd suggest taking a look at Muslim history. They are far from what they were in history.
In fact they are not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2014, 12:06 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,586,726 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
You stupid or pretending? over the past few hundred years, the Crimea was Russian and only 23, he was Ukrainian.35,000 bombs on Yugoslavia, throw bombs, or throw on 0 Crimea-fascism which one? first or second is fascism?
It's you are pretending that you have no capacity to comprehend simple facts of the modern world. Like all those International Treaties Russia signed or inherited from USSR. Prior to Putin' blitzkrieg, European nations came to the conclusion (paid with 50 millions of lives) that current borders should remain intact, there should be no wars (even bloodless) to change borders, regardless of sad history and made up claims. That was a corner stone of the international security for 70 years, foundation that Putin' Russia just trashed.

Sudetenland was German for more than 700 years, it belonged to Czech Republic for less than 18 years, so what?

Also you pretend that you have no mental capacity to understand the key differences between Yugoslavia and Crimea. People of former Yugoslavia killed each other on the large scale in the name of ethnic purity, 35,000 bombs or whatever number stopped that barbarity, whether you admit that or not. NATO didn't annex any piece of the former Yugoslavia. Russia invaded peaceful Crimea, the fact that Ukrainian army (saturated with "oppressed" Crimean residents) didn't resist doesn't change the fact that Russia risked a possibility of mass casualties in the name of National Greatness and Glory as perceived by the inflamed nationalist minds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top