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Thanks God, we have Russians who do everything right and who always have a clue!
If only people around the world were wise enough to listen and do what Russia says and follow Russian interests, the world would sure be a much better place to live!
Erasure's right, though; Western analysts really don't have a clue. For example, how could anyone be stupid enough to believe that Russia had somehow transformed into some semblance of a liberal-ish capitalist democracy, just because the SU collapsed? And yet, plenty of people in high places thought that. Don't these people ever consult Soviet/Russia specialists, people who have known Russia for decades? I guess they don't want to know the truth, they just want to push their agenda.
Right Sektor has both a political and paramilitary arm. Not to mention, it's amusing that you think everyone involved in the Ukrainian revolution was a skinhead or a member of far-right groups.
You ascribing me your own thoughts - that's what amusing.
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Officials in power do not use them, they just can't disarm them with Russia annexing and agitating everywhere.
So that means they are using them - plain and simple.
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Also, in case some people haven't realized, Kyiv is never going back into the Russian sphere of influence except by force which may start World War III.
No one cares about Kiev at this point. If Western Ukraine/Kiev want to undergo IMF reforms - that's their choice. But Eastern Ukrainians didn't vote for Maidan.
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The audacity of Moscow to make demands and comment on the situation after invading, hosting a farce referendum, and then annexing Crimea is hilarious.
What's hilarious is to think that Crimea wasn't asking to be included in Russia already long time ago.
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They're also probably behind the agitation in Far East Ukraine.
And the US is not "probably" but for sure is behind Maidan.
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Moscow pretty much unilaterally ruined its dominant relationship and close ties with the country, for a very, very, long time. Even Russified Ukrainians will probably view the annexation with bitterness for centuries to come
Actually, they are looking for clues in Crimea and hoping that its self-defence troops might come to their rescue.
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and the country is clearly looking west for aid and European integration (which means real living standards increases.)
Not "the country" - Western/Central parts of it. The West should take them and leave the East alone. But they won't, because the original goal of this enterprise was not about helping Ukrainian interests, but hurting Russia's interests to begin with.
Last edited by Rozenn; 04-09-2014 at 06:51 AM..
Reason: Unnecessary
Ukraine is not Russia's child, in fact it was once a proud nation centuries ago.
This "proud nation" ended up under Polish dominance centuries ago; again - you don't know much about a subject - do you?
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They should be able to sort things out themselves. Russia is clearly provocating.
And if they are "able to sort things out themselves," then what McCain was doing in Kiev? ( Just an example)
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The fact that Russia's puppet was voted in in a fair election doesn't mean much when his troops are shooting his own people and he invites Russian troops to Crimea, who then annex the territory. The man would at this point be hanged if he returned to his homeland.
News for you - Russian troops were stationed in Crimea long before Yanukovich was elected as president.
Last edited by Rozenn; 04-09-2014 at 06:52 AM..
Reason: Bickering
Erasure's right, though; Western analysts really don't have a clue. For example, how could anyone be stupid enough to believe that Russia had somehow transformed into some semblance of a liberal-ish capitalist democracy, just because the SU collapsed? And yet, plenty of people in high places thought that. Don't these people ever consult Soviet/Russia specialists, people who have known Russia for decades? I guess they don't want to know the truth, they just want to push their agenda.
I'm sure they DO consult, Ruth ( Yavlinsky was an example,) but they reject such people, because these people are not ready to give up Russian national interests, and they don't say what Westerners want to hear. Hence the Westerners choose only the "yes -men," ( a-la Chubais and Gaidar,) who are ready to push Western agenda.
By now we all know the result of such short-sighted policies - Putin's Russia.
You ascribing me your own thoughts - that's what amusing.
So that means they are using them - plain and simple.
News for you - Russian troops were stationed in Crimea long before Yanukovich was elected as president.
No, they can't control them with Russia provocating and annexing.
Yes Ukraine had a deal with Russia to keep some troops and the Black Sea Navy at Sevastapol, not the numbers and the area outside that I'm talking about
No, they can't control them with Russia provocating and annexing.
They couldn't control Pravy Sector to begin with, (long BEFORE Russia was "provocating and annexing") and it was already noticeable during Maidan events.
When one of Pravy Sector's leaders, notorious Sashko Bely became too obnoxious and Kiev's government found it inconvenient - to have such controversial "friends" in the eyes of the West, they've tried to clump down on them. The "useful idiots" that played their decisive role on Maidan had to go, ( at least for the time being,) but with the latest events in South-East, the "useful idiots" became useful again, and Kiev's government sends them now to Donetsk and Lugansk. So yes, Kiev's government uses Pravy Sector when it finds it suitable.
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Yes Ukraine had a deal with Russia to keep some troops and the Black Sea Navy at Sevastapol, not the numbers and the area outside that I'm talking about
They couldn't control Pravy Sector to begin with, (long BEFORE Russia was "provocating and annexing") and it was already noticeable during Maidan events.
When one of Pravy Sector's leaders, notorious Sashko Bely became too obnoxious and Kiev's government found it inconvenient - to have such controversial "friends" in the eyes of the West, they've tried to clump down on them. The "useful idiots" that played their decisive role on Maidan had to go, ( at least for the time being,) but with the latest events in South-East, the "useful idiots" became useful again, and Kiev's government sends them now to Donetsk and Lugansk. So yes, Kiev's government uses Pravy Sector when it finds it suitable.
Right Sektor isn't being sent to Southeast Ukraine, that's nonsense. They're a paramilitary group organized in one of the poorest countries in Europe which is currently completely destabilized. You're acting as if a transitional government that can't even put down Russian provocateurs can somehow direct a far-right group that does what it pleases.
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Originally Posted by erasure
And if Yanukovich wouldn't have "invited Russian troops?" Like it would have mattered...
We'll see whether the majority of the population of ethnic Ukrainians wants to look towards the EU and US, or back towards an annexing power that just forcibly annexed part of the country and organized a mock referendum, committed a massive genocide, the Holodomor, on the population from 1932-1933, and clearly renegged on its 1993 agreements to not claim the Crimean peninsula in exchange for keeping its Black Sea fleet there.
Those were his words, even he regrets it, as Ukraine is never getting Crimea back. Ironically, that illegal annexation might have just reversed centuries of Russian domination and influence, we'll see the level of (justified) bitterness in the free and fair (not in the CIS terms, but rather international norms) elections in May...unless Russia invades the rest of Ukraine which seems likely.
Last edited by Rozenn; 04-09-2014 at 06:53 AM..
Reason: Bickering
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