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Old 03-23-2014, 03:10 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,615,749 times
Reputation: 862

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Nice parroting of the official propaganda lines of the Russian czars who declared themselves to be in charge of one and the only "true" Russians to legitimate their power and land grabs. It's not big deal that Kiev is located "on the edge" of Russia according to this idiotic propaganda Russians embraced wholeheartedly.

At the time of Kievan Rus', Moscow area (as well as most of NW Russia) was sparsely populated by Finnish tribes area sprinkled with a few Slavic settlers. 1000 years later, Kiev magically shifted "to the edge" of Russia, the entity that didn't even exist before Moscow rulers used Golden Horde military might to start absorbing other NW Rus principalities.

Kievan Rus was never a monolithic nation, there was no Kievan Rus ethnicity. Confederation consisted of many semi-isolated, barely related tribes (some of those were not even Slavic). Moscovites declared themselves to be one and the only true descendants of Kievan Rus, later on they stole the brand "Rus" and "Russians" all to themselves, declaring all the others Eastern Slavs "spoiled" by foreign influences and itching to reunite with Mother Russia brand Moscovites created.

A nation that invents its roots and uses that make up history to justify its domination over other nations is doomed, since it has no roots, just force fed propaganda called to excite chauvinistic masses.
Do not you teach me my history. I know my history better. better learn your own!
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:29 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,615,749 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsgsgs View Post
the question is, is there a general change in policy, is invading countries
or threat thereof, breaking treaties a tool in Russian policy.
Is this considered less important than protecting Russian speakers,
fighting nationalist movements, whatever.
What are the children taught in schools ? glorious history, wars ?
Putin in his speech mentioned gain of Crimea 1783, but also by breaking treaties.
In that time military success was probably considered more important,
but nowadays with airplanes, international trade, blocks, nukes,
global problems (global warming,bioterrorism,...) things look probably different.
That's presumably what Obama meant with wrong side of history.
YOU know what it is and how it applies to the Crimea?-

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:34 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,586,726 times
Reputation: 7457
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyKarast View Post
Do not you teach me my history. I know my history better. better learn your own!
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, comrade.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:39 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,615,749 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, comrade.
You many times proved their ignorance of history
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,288 times
Reputation: 82
And we have the news interesting to me:
1 . In the Crimea there was an accident (or I didn't happen) and now on the island in many cities there is no electricity.
Here or provocation is expected, or our parliament tried...
Anyway I congratulate inhabitants of the Crimea on "improvement" and I remember professor of Preobrazhenskoye who asked: why earlier the electricity of 20 years worked smoothly, and now there are "accurate accidents" 2 times a month: )


2 . And the second news about plans of the Kremlin for the southern coast of the Crimea. As it appeared all tourist industry gave to the Chechen businessman Baysarov.
Russia spoke to you about "your global earnings", here and receive...
Events develop very quickly and it is possible to assume that euphoria will vanish in a month.


By the way, our Ministry of social policy already sounded number of inhabitants of the Crimea (Tatars, Ukrainians, Russians) which want to leave the Crimea - already about 25 000 people. And after all the party only began, dear inhabitants of the Crimea: )
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,288 times
Reputation: 82
I forgot to mention Zhirinovsky's new project:
The parliament of Russia sent the missive to parliament Poland with the offer to hold a referendum and to return the western Ukraine (5 areas) to structure of Poland. Similar "offer" was received by Hungary and Romania rather Zakarpatye and Chernovitsky areas. Thus as a part of Ukraine Zhirinovsky offers only its central part.


Whether I know truthful it is news but personally I trust: ) It is very similar to Russia now.
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:58 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,615,749 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post
And we have the news interesting to me:
1 . In the Crimea there was an accident (or I didn't happen) and now on the island in many cities there is no electricity.
Here or provocation is expected, or our parliament tried...
Anyway I congratulate inhabitants of the Crimea on "improvement" and I remember professor of Preobrazhenskoye who asked: why earlier the electricity of 20 years worked smoothly, and now there are "accurate accidents" 2 times a month: )


2 . And the second news about plans of the Kremlin for the southern coast of the Crimea. As it appeared all tourist industry gave to the Chechen businessman Baysarov.
Russia spoke to you about "your global earnings", here and receive...
Events develop very quickly and it is possible to assume that euphoria will vanish in a month.


By the way, our Ministry of social policy already sounded number of inhabitants of the Crimea (Tatars, Ukrainians, Russians) which want to leave the Crimea - already about 25 000 people. And after all the party only began, dear inhabitants of the Crimea: )
wonder how Ukraine will pay the debt in the $ 16 billion?you like to misinform and gloat?
You'd better think about your future and your country. Ukraine is to join the EU?
Wait 10 more years for sure. I warned you it would.
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: State Fire and Ice
3,102 posts, read 5,615,749 times
Reputation: 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Ukraine View Post
I forgot to mention Zhirinovsky's new project:
The parliament of Russia sent the missive to parliament Poland with the offer to hold a referendum and to return the western Ukraine (5 areas) to structure of Poland. Similar "offer" was received by Hungary and Romania rather Zakarpatye and Chernovitsky areas. Thus as a part of Ukraine Zhirinovsky offers only its central part.


Whether I know truthful it is news but personally I trust: ) It is very similar to Russia now.
What about the part of Western Ukraine from Poland who joined Stalin? or all of the eastern and southern part of who joined Lenin from Russia?Write later, I need to work, unlike you
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:01 PM
 
26,777 posts, read 22,529,485 times
Reputation: 10037
"Still, the delay underscores the difficulty of economic policy changes the IMF is requiring of Ukraine to tap emergency fund credit. Ukraine has twice in the past abandoned IMF bailouts after refusing to implement promised economic changes."

(Why Ukraine did it at the first place by the way, that's the question that needs to be addressed under the current circumstances.)

"The country's prime minister has said the IMF is requiring a 20% cut in the country's 2014 budget. The fund has also said it wants strong commitments to phaseout energy subsidies that are a major drain on government finances and a currency that is determined by the market. All of those are politically-sensitive issues for Ukrainians. Upcoming elections in May make the decisions Kiev must take to receive an IMF loan that much more challenging.

IMF watchers say it likely would take two to three weeks more for a program to gain approval by the fund's executive board, putting the final IMF bailout go-ahead more likely in the second half of April."


The International Monetary Fund Said Officials Have Made Significant Progress in Ukraine Bailout Talks - WSJ.com
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Ukraine (Kiev)
435 posts, read 420,288 times
Reputation: 82
To my regret military operations in Russia don't allow parliament to begin economic reforms really.
Also we can't obtain the international credits yet the border of Ukraine is defined.
You by the way know that losses of your country are estimated already in 100 billion dollars, and it in 3 weeks of intervention?

Therefore we are compelled to wait while at Russia money for occupation of Ukraine will end: ) For this reason me now Russia interests even more than Ukraine.
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