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Old 03-27-2014, 12:37 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Wasn't Sudan all about oil? If yes, then I can understand why the split has been approved by "international foundation."
In case of Eastern Ukraine I believe the split will not be approved by "international foundation" because the splintered Ukraine goes against the interests of the US/EU in this case.
Although looking at the situation in Eastern Ukraine, I'd think it would be better for them to split from the rest of Ukraine from economic point of view - the EU reforms will hit them the hardest.

Workers fear for the future in Ukraine's industrial east | World news | theguardian.com

That's being said, the mood there is not the same as in Crimea, so it's not like they are ready to jump under Russian jurisdiction. I think that they'd simply prefer to have their own political independence, while accepting dependence on Russian economy. I just don't believe anyone will let them have their say, what's really serves the interests of people in these regions, that's why at the end they'll be forced to take only available choices instead of the desired ones.
I think Sudan was also about ethnic tensions (heathen and Christian blacks vs. wanna-be Arab Muslims), oil was what prevented the north from agreeing to the south's independence for so long, if I remember correctly.

But yes, that is why I suggested the UN start a program to settle all those ticking time bombs around the planet in a diplomatic and peaceful way that everyone can live with, even if no one is perfectly happy.
We have to get rid of the idea that the current countries with their current borders are ideal and have to remain unchanged forever...
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,804,723 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Ethnic Russians? Well, in that case there is no point in getting it back, of course...
Almost all Ethnic Finns were evacuated in 1944 and when the SU fell the Ingrians were allowed to return with the Law of Return, so now according to the 2010 census there's just 1.4% ethnic Finns and 7.4% of ethnic Karelians living in the Karelian Republic. And half of this area has never been a part of Finland.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:51 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,764 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Yet that's what EU is asking for - all those 7-8 million of ethnic Russians in Ukraine to "align" with it))))
Does it make much sense to you?
Well, to be fair all those "ethnic Russians" are Ukrainians in the first place, ain't they?

Are they not (Russian speaking) Ukrainian citizens?
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,804,723 times
Reputation: 11103
Putler rises up the ante:

Vzgaljad, a newspaper close to the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin, according to the magazine has identified Russia now have their own "red line" that the West should not exceed or which, when exceeded result in severe countermeasures.
Vzgljad magazine, Putin used the recent Russian Parliament in his speech to say the words that " the West has crossed the line."

According to the magazine NATO's eastward expansion has been a fetish for a long time, " the winners of the Cold War ," and the West has assumed that Russia merely a loser forever roles and swallows without a murmur NATO forces close within its own borders. The Baltic countries were, however, according to the magazine that the final straw, after which Russia is no longer willing to agree to just about Brussels dictation.

- NATO's leadership has already started to work with it to pull the Swedish and Finnish armed forces into the alliance, which may shift the confrontation between NATO and Russia once and for all the critical line, the magazine wrote.

- This is where the "red line" (for Putin) is, of course, to maintain the status of neutral "buffer states " in Ukraine, Georgia, Sweden and Finland, the Journal writes.

Partly google translated via a Finnish newspaper.

Well, who cares.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:58 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,764 times
Reputation: 1282
"Congress Approves $1 Billion in Aid for Ukraine"

“Make no mistake,†he (Obama) continued. “Neither the United States nor Europe has any interest in controlling Ukraine. We have sent no troops there. What we want is for the Ukrainian people to make their own decisions, just like other free people around the world.â€

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/wo...r-ukraine.html
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:59 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
Well, to be fair all those "ethnic Russians" are Ukrainians in the first place, ain't they?

Are they not (Russian speaking) Ukrainian citizens?
Are they ethnic Russians or Ukrainians who switched to speaking Russian for some reason?
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:05 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,764 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Are they ethnic Russians or Ukrainians who switched to speaking Russian for some reason?
All I'm saying is that Russian speaking people living in Ukraine are Ukrainians.

They didn't switch anything. Russian is their first language, but they are Ukrainian citizens.

Quebecois speak French but they are Canadian citizens.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:07 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete View Post
Putler rises up the ante:

Vzgaljad, a newspaper close to the Kremlin, Vladimir Putin, according to the magazine has identified Russia now have their own "red line" that the West should not exceed or which, when exceeded result in severe countermeasures.
Vzgljad magazine, Putin used the recent Russian Parliament in his speech to say the words that " the West has crossed the line."

According to the magazine NATO's eastward expansion has been a fetish for a long time, " the winners of the Cold War ," and the West has assumed that Russia merely a loser forever roles and swallows without a murmur NATO forces close within its own borders. The Baltic countries were, however, according to the magazine that the final straw, after which Russia is no longer willing to agree to just about Brussels dictation.

- NATO's leadership has already started to work with it to pull the Swedish and Finnish armed forces into the alliance, which may shift the confrontation between NATO and Russia once and for all the critical line, the magazine wrote.

- This is where the "red line" (for Putin) is, of course, to maintain the status of neutral "buffer states " in Ukraine, Georgia, Sweden and Finland, the Journal writes.

Partly google translated via a Finnish newspaper.

Well, who cares.
While I agree on Putin's view regarding Nato expansion as the major problem, I wonder why he needs buffers. Nobody dares attack Russia, so Russia is safe, even if Nato put a million soldiers along Russia's borders.
If anything Russia should develop its weapons and nukes further so that no defense shield in the world can stop them from flying into Europe and beyond. Maybe they could work together with China in that area which is making huge progress in all things military.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,745,361 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
All I'm saying is that Russian speaking people living in Ukraine are Ukrainians.

They didn't switch anything. Russian is their first language, but they are Ukrainian citizens.

Quebecois speak French but they are Canadian citizens.
Well, that one-sided view is the problem with all such conflicts. Same in Spain. People in Catalonia are officially Spaniards, but don't want to be.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,804,723 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
While I agree on Putin's view regarding Nato expansion as the major problem, I wonder why he needs buffers. Nobody dares attack Russia, so Russia is safe, even if Nato put a million soldiers along Russia's borders.
If anything Russia should develop its weapons and nukes further so that no defense shield in the world can stop them from flying into Europe and beyond. Maybe they could work together with China in that area which is making huge progress in all things military.
Superpowers or former superpowers follow their own logic.

Well, I don't see what Putin has against Finland and Sweden joining Nato. Did he think we'd be on his side?

Whatever, if he comes here i will fight to the last bullet.
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