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Old 03-28-2014, 10:57 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
Reputation: 9728

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Ukraine as a whole not, but if that is what the Eastern half or so wants, why not? There is not ONE Ukrainian people.

This conflict really shows the dilemma between people's right to self-determination and the concept of the nation, which is not very old by the way. Basically today's nations are often what used to be empires. Empires also forced all kinds of people into common borders...
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:32 AM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Ukraine as a whole not, but if that is what the Eastern half or so wants, why not? There is not ONE Ukrainian people.
EVERY ONE person living in the Ukraine is a Ukrainian (citizen). Even the Russian speaking ones. They all ARE Ukrainians.

Do you understand the concept of citizenship/nationality versus ethnicity?

In any case, this is an internal affair of Ukraine. UKRAINE, as a sovereign state, should solve their internal problems, NOT Russian tanks.
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Old 03-28-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
EVERY ONE person living in the Ukraine is a Ukrainian (citizen). Even the Russian speaking ones. They all ARE Ukrainians.

Do you understand the concept of citizenship/nationality versus ethnicity?

In any case, this is an internal affair of Ukraine. UKRAINE, as a sovereign state, should solve their internal problems, NOT Russian tanks.
Exactly, and it seems you want to force all Ukrainian nationals to live in the Ukraine even if those that are not ethnic Ukrainians don't want that.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Hong Kong / Vienna
4,491 posts, read 6,342,927 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Exactly, and it seems you want to force all Ukrainian nationals to live in the Ukraine even if those that are not ethnic Ukrainians don't want that.
I'd force them to discuss greater autonomy first.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:29 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,739,641 times
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Originally Posted by viribusunitis View Post
I'd force them to discuss greater autonomy first.
I've read that that has already been tried, but Kiev is not willing to allow for greater autonomy, to the contrary.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:43 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,107 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Exactly, and it seems you want to force all Ukrainian nationals to live in the Ukraine even if those that are not ethnic Ukrainians don't want that.
No, I don't.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:10 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
"Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat"

"Right Sector activists blocked the parliament (Rada) building in Kiev on Thursday night and smashed windows."

BBC News - Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat

The new government of Ukraine may have got a little problem.
What "ultra-right threat?"
It was all fruit of Putin's imagination, and of those living in Eastern Ukraine))))

So three-four, all together now -

"Hot stuff" starring Donna Summer and featuring Putin's troops as back-up dancers


Donna Summer - Hot Stuff - LIVE - YouTube
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:19 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,107 times
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What "ultra-right threat?"
It was all fruit of Putin's imagination, and of those living in Eastern Ukraine))))
Erasure, you know perfectly well that Putin has and always had his own agenda and his own plans for Ukraine that have nothing to do with "ultra-rights" in the Ukraine.

Thank you for the clip.

By the way, I don't think, it's funny.

Last edited by movingwiththewind; 03-28-2014 at 02:28 PM..
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:26 PM
 
26,783 posts, read 22,537,314 times
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Originally Posted by movingwiththewind View Post
Erasure, you know perfectly well that Putin has and always had his own agenda and his own plans for Ukraine that have nothing to do with "ultra-rights" in the Ukraine.

Thank you for the clip.
Of course I do, as much as I know that those very "ultra right forces" were the driving force behind the militant takeover of Maidan during "peaceful protests" in February.

You are welcome.
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:33 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,149,107 times
Reputation: 1282
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Of course I do, as much as I know that those very "ultra right forces" were the driving force behind the militant takeover of Maidan during "peaceful protests" in February.
Well, if you know that Putin have always had his own plans regarding Ukraine, not only are those "ultra right forces" not relevant in the discussion of who (exactly) took over Maidan, but this fact alone (Putin's plans) justifies the actions to overthrow the regime of his puppet Yanukovitch, whose role as Ukrainian president was exactly what?

Last edited by movingwiththewind; 03-28-2014 at 02:50 PM..
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