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And today the Ukrainian Insurgent Army is very popular among Ukrainians. This is very annoying people from the east of Ukraine. I wonder what position will the new president of Ukraine Poroshenko.
True. But many Poles handed over minorities to the SS as well.
As for Stepan Bandera he was not liked by the German Nazis either. They just used him as a tool for their own interests. The Nazis put Bandera on the Sachsenhausen concentration camp in January 1942.
Last edited by Northwindsforever; 05-30-2014 at 12:54 PM..
Sorry but I would have a hard time believing anything concerning the Ukraine from a Russian TV station.
While you have to take it with a grain of salt, Ukrainian news is no better, ad actually worse given the ridiculous things they are saying. Also, there is no doubt the eyewitness account videos shown, difficult to spin that.
And I read contradictory reports in the English-speaking media. Whom do you believe? I didn't inhale. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. Subprime is AAA. You can keep your current plan. Libya is stable and open for business.
erasure, do you know what is the current reality on the ground? I read that Russia is withdrawing its troops from the border and that Ukraine troops are making progress in retaking territory in Donbass. Yet I also read opinions that Russia will be able to influence events in Ukraine in its own favor for a long time.
It sounds like the Russians have made some kind of deal with the new Ukraine president and that they are sacrificing the separatists, on the one hand, - even an EU mediator said that Ukraine should pay Russia for gas upfront, albeit at a fair market price -, but, on the other hand, the Russians can still send men and materiel across the border to keep up the pressure, though I am not sure.
What is your sense?
Thanks.
I am guessing here a lot as well, Bale...
See, I thought Putin would go to direct confrontation over the elections ( i.e. that he wouldn't recognize the results,) but his game seems to be more subtle at this point.
Whatever help Eastern regions are getting from Russia (they certainly do,) - it doesn't go through "official channels."
If Putin decided to pull the troops away from Ukrainian border, I'd guess that he probably made some deals with people in EU rather than with Poroshenko. Poroshenko is taking a "tough stance" on the South-East, since he is in a rush to report to his new masters in Washington DC about the "readiness of the country" to be submitted under their command, ( and that includes the industries of the East to be passed to American/EU owners.) But that's not so easy to achieve, since Ukrainian Army is in poor shape ( no matter how much oligarch Kolomoysky is paying for the new units, or how many people from Pravy sector are joining the "National Guard." The "rebels" seem to be pretty well organized, having a Russian professional (former army officer) in charge of many military operations. I am reading his biography now -
he had military experience both in Yugoslavia and Chechnya.
So this article probably describes the situation on the ground rather well;
So even if Putin is pulling off troops ( as I've said, I suspect he has reached some kind of agreement with Europeans, ) this conflict in Ukraine is far from over. ( Overall I think Putin will exploit each and every disagreement between Europeans and the US to his own advantage.)
These are other two interesting moments worth mentioning -
1. Yesterday's reception of Yatzenuk in Aahen, Germany by the locals ( where he arrived to receive some award
I am guessing here a lot as well, Bale...
See, I thought Putin would go to direct confrontation over the elections ( i.e. that he wouldn't recognize the results,) but his game seems to be more subtle at this point.
Whatever help Eastern regions are getting from Russia (they certainly do,) - it doesn't go through "official channels."
If Putin decided to pull the troops away from Ukrainian border, I'd guess that he probably made some deals with people in EU rather than with Poroshenko. Poroshenko is taking a "tough stance" on the South-East, since he is in a rush to report to his new masters in Washington DC about the "readiness of the country" to be submitted under their command, ( and that includes the industries of the East to be passed to American/EU owners.) But that's not so easy to achieve, since Ukrainian Army is in poor shape ( no matter how much oligarch Kolomoysky is paying for the new units, or how many people from Pravy sector are joining the "National Guard." The "rebels" seem to be pretty well organized, having a Russian professional (former army officer) in charge of many military operations. I am reading his biography now -
he had military experience both in Yugoslavia and Chechnya.
So this article probably describes the situation on the ground rather well;
So even if Putin is pulling off troops ( as I've said, I suspect he has reached some kind of agreement with Europeans, ) this conflict in Ukraine is far from over. ( Overall I think Putin will exploit each and every disagreement between Europeans and the US to his own advantage.)
These are other two interesting moments worth mentioning -
1. Yesterday's reception of Yatzenuk in Aahen, Germany by the locals ( where he arrived to receive some award
So as I've said Poroshenko or not - I don't see this whole conflict being resolved any time soon.
I can't give you any more rep at the moment, but thanks for your comments and the articles you cited, it helps my understanding.
I didn't take into account the possibility that Mr Putin may have made some deals with people in the EU. As you mentioned, Mr Putin probably aims to take advantage of any differences between the EU and US: my sense is that the EU has much less stomach for sanctions since their trade with Russia is some ten times more than the US and I imagine direct investment on the same order of magnitude, perhaps even greater than 10 to 1.
Interesting also, according to the articles you cited, that Russia is making plans to take in refugees from Donbass, implying that they expect a long, drawn out conflict. Well, this helps military industry sales on all sides.
On a personal note, I am deeply sorry for the people, on both sides, who have suffered loss of life and/or displacement, it hurts.
If Putin decided to pull the troops away from Ukrainian border, I
Well, I guess sooner or later he does. The peninsula has a strategic reason. And you can support it by organising touristic groups from state-sponsored organisations.
"Several dozen coffins of dead Chechen fighters have been returned to Chechnya following deadlly clashes early this week at Donetsk International Airport between Kremlin-backed insurgents and Ukrainian anti-terrorism troops. Reporters for Kavkazky Uzel said that between 35 and 45 corpses arrived in Grozny on May 30. Ukrainian border guards said the bodies of slain Russian nationals were being allowed to return to Russia for humanitarian reasons."
Obviousely the Russians are trying to spew a lot of propaganda that all Ukrainians are Ultra Nationalist neo nazis. But that's just an poor attempt to stir things up. It's no secret that there is an uptick in neo nazism and intolerace in Russia also. St. Petersburg is crawling with skinheads and the numbers are increasing.
"Several dozen coffins of dead Chechen fighters have been returned to Chechnya following deadlly clashes early this week at Donetsk International Airport between Kremlin-backed insurgents and Ukrainian anti-terrorism troops. Reporters for Kavkazky Uzel said that between 35 and 45 corpses arrived in Grozny on May 30. Ukrainian border guards said the bodies of slain Russian nationals were being allowed to return to Russia for humanitarian reasons."
Ukrainian sources can't be trusted - I think CNN ( or one of other major westerns news outlets) already mentioned that they proved to be unreliable while citing figures/facts, because they didn't prove to be true on numerous occasions.
From what I remember, the truck with wounded fighters that was transporting them has been hit during the battle in Donetsk, and there were about 50 people there. What are the chances that 45 of them were Chechens?
I've stopped reading Ukrainian news all together for some time already - these people are full of hot air and their news-makers don't come across as particularly intelligent ones.
On rebels site they at least try to separate truth from fiction - when rumors had it that "the rebels" downed three Ukrainian helicopters recently, they've laughed and said "no, only one. The other two were downed by the "couch forces of the internet."
I can't give you any more rep at the moment, but thanks for your comments and the articles you cited, it helps my understanding.
I didn't take into account the possibility that Mr Putin may have made some deals with people in the EU. As you mentioned, Mr Putin probably aims to take advantage of any differences between the EU and US: my sense is that the EU has much less stomach for sanctions since their trade with Russia is some ten times more than the US and I imagine direct investment on the same order of magnitude, perhaps even greater than 10 to 1.
Interesting also, according to the articles you cited, that Russia is making plans to take in refugees from Donbass, implying that they expect a long, drawn out conflict. Well, this helps military industry sales on all sides.
On a personal note, I am deeply sorry for the people, on both sides, who have suffered loss of life and/or displacement, it hurts.
Me too. I feel sorry for Ukrainians - their land always seems to be hit the hardest and they suffer a lot during all kinds of conflicts throughout history. It doesn't pay to be "on the fringes" of Russia, apparently.
Last edited by erasure; 05-31-2014 at 10:12 AM..
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