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Originally Posted by pigeonhole I'm not Russian , but if someone comes to me defending this type of actions, I will very much feel like bloodying his/her nose (no sexism here).
No, you're a western Stalinist, and that is about the worst a human being can be.
An apt description of yourself then, for you are on the side of people who are hell-bent at waging war in order to enforce former artificial administrative borders established in the Soviet era , and you certainly approve of Stalin, being Georgian, giving South Ossetia and Abkhazia to his homeland as a "present" back then. So who is the actual stalinist here ?
I know. There's three theories. The separatists and RT said it was an aircraft that fired those, but that can't be true, as the timeframe is just too long, and the latter explosions too weak. At 0:18 you see small bursts of lights going off behind the square, which are the ignition charges. Some sources said it was RPG's or Iglas backfiring, but that isn't true either. If it were S-8 rockets that are anti-tank missiles, why on earth would they be fired at a park with no reason? I just don't see the logic. HEAT or DC-HEAT missiles work really really poorly on other than armoured targets. I've seen a 66mm HEAT charge being fired live, and it took down a tree. And would've taken down another one if hit. Nothing more than that. Definitely nothing like the first explosion in that video. HEAT missiles are supposed to penetrate, not create a lot of explosions with shrapnel.
As I said, a WWI airplane dropping a 30kg HE bomb by hand would do more damage.
I know. There's three theories. The separatists and RT said it was an aircraft that fired those, but that can't be true, as the timeframe is just too long, and the latter explosions too weak. At 0:18 you see small bursts of lights going off behind the square, which are the ignition charges. Some sources said it was RPG's or Iglas backfiring, but that isn't true either. If it were S-8 rockets that are anti-tank missiles, why on earth would they be fired at a park with no reason? I just don't see the logic. HEAT or DC-HEAT missiles work really really poorly on other than armoured targets. I've seen a 66mm HEAT charge being fired live, and it took down a tree. And would've taken down another one if hit. Nothing more than that. Definitely nothing like the first explosion in that video. HEAT missiles are supposed to penetrate, not create a lot of explosions with shrapnel.
As I said, a WWI airplane dropping a 30kg HE bomb by hand would do more damage.
Sorry Ariete - it were rockets fired from the plane in Lugansk. The OSCE came up with official statement yesterday.
"Since the OSCE’s report, Ukraine has issued a follow-up statement confirming that the Air Force “fired more than 150 missiles” over Luhansk on Monday. The missiles apparently were used during a gunbattle in southern Luhansk, as well as to destroy rebel checkpoints, but Kiev continued to deny any missile strikes hit the administration building, saying they would never fire into civilian areas."
No matter how much Kiev's government is trying to lie and to make up stories that "separatists did it."
Too bad CNN is not talking about such things.
Who were those people in the last video? Should we feel sympathy for them? The ladies should've shot the separatists in the head, and maybe the other one would be alive and the other would have her other leg.
"Sitä saa mitä tilaa" (You'll get what you order), as we say in Finnish.
And you have the nerve to call someone else a "Stalinist"?
You are the only one on this entire thread that advocates death, and genocide of entire groups of people. I have already called you out on this before.
I know. There's three theories. The separatists and RT said it was an aircraft that fired those, but that can't be true, as the timeframe is just too long, and the latter explosions too weak. At 0:18 you see small bursts of lights going off behind the square, which are the ignition charges. Some sources said it was RPG's or Iglas backfiring, but that isn't true either. If it were S-8 rockets that are anti-tank missiles, why on earth would they be fired at a park with no reason? I just don't see the logic. HEAT or DC-HEAT missiles work really really poorly on other than armoured targets. I've seen a 66mm HEAT charge being fired live, and it took down a tree. And would've taken down another one if hit. Nothing more than that. Definitely nothing like the first explosion in that video. HEAT missiles are supposed to penetrate, not create a lot of explosions with shrapnel.
As I said, a WWI airplane dropping a 30kg HE bomb by hand would do more damage.
Well, the reason has been stated continously by posters here, Russia, Crimea, and people in east Ukraine, you just refuse to listen, or are being obtuse, or actually support these kinds of things. Given your genocide stance you have displayed, it is probably you support these kinds of things.
As I said earlier, that is NOT a strike aircraft at work. Any air-to-ground missiles would go off within 1 second from an aircraft that is flying over at 600 km/h. Even a helicopter flying at 250 km/h and firing small-ball hydra missiles would do more damage than that, and much faster. The latter explosions don't even shake the nearby trees! Those are IED:s on the ground.
Those Lugansk-Donetsk separatists are nothing but traitors and terrorists, and if they want to play with death, so be it. Only a minority of the people in the Region is even supporting that stupid clique.
No, you're a western Stalinist, and that is about the worst a human being can be.
This is where you are quite wrong, but Kiev should give you thanks for buying into the BS.
Many people support the separatists, and for every missile fired into civilian targets, the support grows more and more. They support so much that Kiev cannot even move militarily into the area to take a small town, let alone the strongholds. Many people in the Kiev army do not support Kiev's actions, and Kiev does not have the military capability and taking back the east.
This is an area consisting of millions of people, the population of the three Baltic countries combined into and area a third of the size. If there was no support, it should have been very easy to sweep in and take control.
Fact is, a sizable minority of the population wants nothing to do with Kiev, and I do not blame them.
My question to you; why you give so much legitimacy to Soviet leaders? You seem to worship them or something given the way you defend the borders they drew.
More wonderful news from Kiev, for those here who love to repeat the mantra "but.. but the nationalists are having 000.1% of support among the general Ukrainian population";
"...The head of information center of "Right Sector" Borislav Bereza announced on Gromadsky radio that the leader of nationalists Dmitry Yarosh has received an offer for one of the positions in Poroshenko's new government.
"Soon you'll hear the decision made by mister Yarosh about accepting one of the positions in the new government", - he told.
Bereza added that "Right Sector" can become "presidential forces" and will support Petro Poroshenko's any decisions which will be directed on preservation of integrity of the state and stability restoration in the society.
"We absolutely support his (Poroshenko) the decision, and we accept his rules of the game on parliament dissolution. And in case of need we are ready to come to parliament and to inform to deputies in this need of re-elections … Today we are ready to accept the responsibility and unite completely all battalions of the territorial defense, all structures of power, considering that we were guaranteed the supplies, arms, and we were also guaranteed cooperation with all the state structures".
The press secretary of "Right Sector" noted that his political force intends to run for the positions in new Verkhovna Rada where it will work together with the most radical nationalist fraction of the "Freedom" party."
So that's what's in the making, unless, of course, the "new masters" - Mrs Ashton/ Nuland - whatever will say "tsk-tsk" to their Kiev's servants - "this will not look too good in the eyes of progressive democratic West" and cancel the decisions at once in a hurry, as they did it with spontaneous law of the new gov. on prohibition of the Russian language.
Well the Ukrainian Air Force did a really poor job then.
They did their job properly. Unguided rockets do not fall exactly on target (the administration building), such missiles destroy defined square. Ukrainians do not have good guided missiles. I hope that people who ordered this brought before a military tribunal.
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Originally Posted by Ariete
How many were killed in that attack, and didn't just 400 people die in the skirmishes on ground just days ago?
Now most of the Russian believes that it is not their war. But if Kiev will continue to kill the Russian-speaking women and children, Russian can run amok, take the bit between one's teeth and declare Holy war. And nobody knows where then stop their tanks and what remains of Russia, Europe and the United States in the case of NATO intervention.
Now most of the Russian believes that it is not their war. But if Kiev will continue to kill the Russian-speaking women and children, Russian can run amok, take the bit between one's teeth and declare Holy war. And nobody knows where then stop their tanks and what remains of Russia, Europe and the United States in the case of NATO intervention.
Those leaders in the Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts are traitors according to international law. The people who supports or tolerate them are symphatisers, the same term you use for the Banderovitsy. Think, if the Karelian Republic and the Ingrian parts of Leningrad Oblast would arm themselves and would aim to join Finland, what do you think Putin's response would be? Heads on spikes, and lots of them. We've seen what happened in Chechnya, and the Kremlin would have no remorse with any other separatists either. I'm quite confident that Putin would be ready to kill half of Karelia if it only falls into the fold.
Don't kid yourself. Your government would kill their own many many many times more without remorse, as they have both the capability and the will to do that. So if you feel sorry for the Slavyansk terrorists, your president would accept a 100 times more legless women, only if his "Russian Empire" is upheld.
The last hotshot you had sacrificed 25 million people without blinking a single eye so that his Soviet Empire wouldn't fall. How many people do you think Putin is ready to sacrifice? 10? 20? 50 million? Remember you're all just cattle to the Kremlin, ready to be sacrificed. And if it comes from my weapon, so be it.
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