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Obviousely the Russians are trying to spew a lot of propaganda that all Ukrainians are Ultra Nationalist neo nazis.
No, not all, but their visible presence during Maidan events and later on, during attempts to subdue the South-East of the country is undeniable.
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But that's just an poor attempt to stir things up. It's no secret that there is an uptick in neo nazism and intolerace in Russia also. St. Petersburg is crawling with skinheads and the numbers are increasing.
And so is Moscow. But the difference with Ukraine is that the "liberal forces" ( opposing the government in Russia) didn't unite so far with the nationalists ( which happened in Ukraine,) and Russian government neither invite them to share the power, nor does it rely on them in military operations anywhere.
Obviousely the Russians are trying to spew a lot of propaganda that all Ukrainians are Ultra Nationalist neo nazis. But that's just an poor attempt to stir things up. It's no secret that there is an uptick in neo nazism and intolerace in Russia also. St. Petersburg is crawling with skinheads and the numbers are increasing.
The US also has many skin heads, the difference is that like Russia, they have about zero political power, whereas in Ukraine, they carry political power in various degrees.
Some even claim that educational, social policy, prosecution and defense are run by ultra nationalists more or less and they determine what it means to be an Ukrainian and those who disagree are viewed as traitors. Even prime minister Yatsenyuk has some Ulta Nationalist/Stepan Bandera philosophy and will carry these views close to his heart til the day he die. Afer the maidan riot he didn't need to worry about election. He is of course pro EU but the EU doesn't want Banderistas in their team.
But i think that also Russia has a lot of work to do if they want to prevent Neo Nazis from taking hold of important positions in coming years.
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Originally Posted by erasure
No, not all, but their visible presence during Maidan events and later on, during attempts to subdue the South-East of the country is undeniable.
And so is Moscow. But the difference with Ukraine is that the "liberal forces" ( opposing the government in Russia) didn't unite so far with the nationalists ( which happened in Ukraine,) and Russian government neither invite them to share the power, nor does it rely on them in military operations anywhere.
Last edited by Northwindsforever; 05-31-2014 at 02:45 PM..
We are all sullied, in spite of the cloaks that we wear. Is that a propaganda secret?
No, there are no secrets here. Everything is transparent.
Since world is world, men duke it out in the streets to determine who is right. That hasn't changed, in spite of the propaganda and proxies that we make for ourselves.
Separatists did shoot down a Ukrainian helicopter; the West has spun it like they have some "advanced" weapons, whereas the reality is they are just Ukrainian military weapons taken of course from the military bases in the east. Shoulder fired anti-aircraft weapons are not rare or any thing, even the poorest third world nations have potentially hundreds of them (Libya itself has thousands of them, that is why the CIA was operating out of the US embassy in Benghazi to collect and destroy them).
Also, numerous men in Ukraine have military experience through being conscripted into the Ukrainian or Soviet military, so war tactics are not something new to them, nor is knowledge of the tactics the Ukrainian military is using.
The Western media plays it up like it is only a few hundred separatists with almost no support; if that was the case, then why does Ukraine not control east Ukraine? Fact is there are numerous people, including the unarmed population, who view Kiev as illegitimate and with good reason; the coup. Right now, Kiev cannot even capture Slovyansk, let alone control east Ukraine.
Is the West/US assisting? Oh I bet they are. Of course there is no proof until their covert operations are uncovered, but just like what just happened in Libya (where hundreds of small arms were stolen and blew the secret operations going on the Africa where the US is arming a training gov groups in six or so African countries), or Syria (where US made anti-tank weapons have found their way into rebel hands), or the numerous CIA missions that have become declassified over the years though the US denied at the time any participation in the events; Ukraine is a critical area to the West/US and Russia, both parties are operating in Ukraine to some level or another.
Anyway, I hope they come to a negotiated conclusion soon, but Kiev's declaring them as "terrorists" and "we do not negotiate with terrorists" shows the lack of respect Kiev has of the east, and this is a reflection of 23 years of attitudes in Ukraine.
"DONETSK, Ukraine — Not long ago, Alexander Borodai, a fast-talking Muscovite with a stylish goatee, worked as a consultant for an investment fund in Moscow. Today he is prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic, zipping around town in a black S.U.V. with tinted windows and armed guards and commanding what he says are hundreds of fighters from Russia..."
Some even claim that educational, social policy, prosecution and defense are run by ultra nationalists more or less and they determine what it means to be an Ukrainian and those who disagree are viewed as traitors.
You don't have to be "ultra-nationalist" to do those things - being nationalist is good enough, and there are plenty of them in the new Kiev's government. See, in spite of all his faults Yanukovitch was not a nationalist, that's why in spite of a presence of nationalists in Ukrainian parliament during his reign, the South-East could sleep well.
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Even prime minister Yatsenyuk has some Ulta Nationalist/Stepan Bandera philosophy and will carry these views close to his heart til the day he die.
This might be a case and might be not - I am not too familiar with his biography.
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Afer the maidan riot he didn't need to worry about election. He is of course pro EU but the EU doesn't want Banderistas in their team.
It doesn't matter what EU "wants" or "doesn't want," - the fact is that Pravy sector was instrumental in bringing the new government to power. Of course it doesn't look/sound too appealing to the EU, that would like to pretend that it never happened and that the new government came to power supported exclusively by some "democratic forces."
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But i think that also Russia has a lot of work to do if they want to prevent Neo Nazis from taking hold of important positions in coming years.
"Important positions?" But they are nowhere near the Russian government, while Ukrainian nationalists were in Rada for quite some time already.
"DONETSK, Ukraine — Not long ago, Alexander Borodai, a fast-talking Muscovite with a stylish goatee, worked as a consultant for an investment fund in Moscow. Today he is prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic, zipping around town in a black S.U.V. with tinted windows and armed guards and commanding what he says are hundreds of fighters from Russia..."
So?
Putin is taking his clues from none other but the US and their handwriting.
I mean it was not the US government doing all the destructive job in Russia back in the nineties - it was some "Harvard University," and some modest NGOs spreading American propaganda in Russia - the US gov. was only distributing grants among them.
Then, again, something like "Blackwater" doing its job somewhere in Iraq or, say, Ukraine ( after being re-named) has no connection to the US government and its interests in the region - now does it?
Ukrainian soldiers from Western regions sent to kill "the rebels" from the Eastern regions are talking about their squalid conditions ( forty people in one small tent,) absence of food and water, meager payments from the government ( they are not capable of supporting their families back home,) and their lack of desire to kill the Eastern Ukrainians.
The guy who is talking at 8.19 ( he doesn't want to show his face,) is saying that the officers can't be trusted, and that there are a lot of villagers among the young soldiers, who don't know their rights (or any laws) and they are taken advantage of by their superiors.
This soldier thinks as well that newly-elected president should be intelligent enough ( or to have good advisers) to know how to negotiate with people in the Eastern regions. The majority of his fellow soldiers he says don't want to be here; they don't see any sense in fighting with the locals.
These are not "banderovets," obviously, not "Pravy sector" - just regular folks from Western Ukrainian provinces ( I think they've mentioned Lutsk,) and it's really sad to watch this whole situation. I feel so sorry for them.
And why this is happening? Because someone somewhere has already promised to "deliver" the industries of the Eastern Ukraine into the "right hands." So those on top are going to reap all the benefits, while those on the bottom are going to pay the price. Business as usual.
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He is of course pro EU but the EU doesn't want Banderistas in their team.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AP7XCCUcug
