The future of Ukraine (crime, black, driving, Russian)

[gsgsgs]

German newspaper "die Zeit" has an article and German videos, also an English video
claiming the police did not shoot on the demonstrants but on armed units that were
present

sorry, that video-link was apparently not posted bei "die Zeit" but by the
first commentor

http://rutube.ru/video/93802748ac84d98b69294da71162d03f

sounds well researched at first sight to me, also the opinion of most commenters
but I"m lost when they talk about weapons and calibers

------------------edit-----------------
meanwhile 165 comments since 20:00 MET
http://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2014-03/kiew-ukraine-telefonat-ashton-paet?commentstart=1#comments
the English link goes to some Russian page, hmm
I only watched the German videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H8lwazZWic

source unclear, "antikrieg.tv"
could be just a translation from Russian or Ukrainian than a German research
(what I first thought)

[musiqum]

Originally Posted by Ariete

Don't forget...

Don't forget how you propagated your proofless "rumours" here that snipers on the roofs were russians.
I think it wasn't a decent deed.

[Muscovite]

gsgsgs
Yes, but there were also snipers. That's the most mysterious thing. In such a situation anyone might have used them.

[musiqum]

Originally Posted by gsgsgs

German newspaper "die Zeit" has an article and videos, also an English video
claiming the police did not shoot on the demonstrants but on armed units

It was said about it by the overthrown ukrainian government from the day one!
I personally hate Yanukovich, but he really didn't order to shoot even after allegedly "peaceful protestors" were throwing these cocktails molotov at 'berkut" and started beating them with chains and sticks. But stupid Yanukovich didn't realize that there are some gangs in the crowd who have the brutal coup scenario ready to be completed.

[Coseau]

All this stuff is a wet dream for defense contractors aka the military industrial complex. I read news from the BBC that protesters and policemen were shot by the same weapons and that the new interim Ukraine government is unwilling to investigate. I guess if you want to seize power and have regime change you have to sometimes take ruthless measures including murder to achieve your goals.

[Muscovite]

Coseau
It's possible.

[viribusunitis]

Originally Posted by gsgsgs

I only watched the German videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5H8lwazZWic

So what they are saying is:

1. This photo was not taken at the same time as that video. Nobody claimed that.

2. Police didn't want to shoot any people, because the bullets missed their targets by 2 meters. A sign that they just wanted to break up the demonstration (wtf?).

3. This photo was taken when they were shooting at fascists with weapons. You can't see those fascists in the video.

4. They say that the people on Maidan had weapons. Which isn't something new, considering that photos like this one are known to the west and people had to defend themselves.

5. They claim that snipers of the Maidan nearly shot a reporter of RT.com. That doesn't make sense. They said that the snipers of Maidan where positioned in Hotel Ukraina. The RT crew was also inside Hotel Ukraina: RT crews under fire, armed rioters take over hotel, fire from windows in Kiev ? RT News

6. They show a video of an armed Maidan guy, who gets shot and claim that only armed people got fired at. They fail to explain this video. They were clearly unarmed.

[musiqum]

Originally Posted by Coseau

All I guess if you want to seize power and have regime change you have to sometimes take ruthless measures including murder to achieve your goals.

Can we acknowledge this government as the legal authorities then? The answer is NO!
The government broke all of the democratic, criminal and constitutional laws.

[gsgsgs]

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2014/03/222988.htm
Office of the Spokesperson of the US-state department , Washington, DC , March 5, 2014

debating Putins claims about
1.) “citizens’ defense groups,” not Russian forces in Ukraine
2.) in accordance with the 1997 Friendship Treaty
3.) Feb.21 agreement was violated
4.) Yanukovych is still the legitimate leader
5.) humanitarian crisis with >200000 refugees trying to flee to Russia
6.) Ethnic Russians are under threat
7.) Russian bases are under threat
8.) churches and synagogues are under threat
9.) Kyiv is trying to destabilize Crimea.
10.) The Rada is influenced by extremists or terrorists


I don't like their selection of points very much and I'm shocked that the state department
leaves out the major point (also Obama's major point)
0.) in accordance with international laws

[kanjelman7]

It's confusing to decide what is believable in the news and media. The news is saying that Russian forces are occupying Crimea while Putin says that those are actually self-defense (Crimean) forces.

I'm sure there were some witnesses that saw Russian troops cross the border? So what's the truth?