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Old 12-04-2019, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Houston
2,580 posts, read 2,157,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
Well, yes, they couldn't afford it anymore if they wanted to.

I wasn't really looking at the forces that created a neighborhood like Montrose through the prism of the current status quo, though. More like how it was 30 or 40 years ago. There were a lot of rednecks back then, and you didn't have to be a redneck to have a less than enlightened view on homosexuals in those days.

Historical context is important. These discussions about "gentrification" are useless without it.
Speaking as a gay white male, while I obviously don't appreciate the attitude of rednecks towards gays, I wonder why they don't generate the same sympathy that African Americans and artists / bohemians / hippies do when they're priced out of their traditional hoods? The Heights used to have rednecks when I was growing up. Is it somehow "wrong" that they've been gentrified out?
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Old 12-05-2019, 11:24 AM
Status: "all photos ©2007-2020/jfre81" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: ✶✶Avondale/Logan Square, Chicago✶✶
14,725 posts, read 26,788,561 times
Reputation: 9905
Quote:
Originally Posted by LocalPlanner View Post
Speaking as a gay white male, while I obviously don't appreciate the attitude of rednecks towards gays, I wonder why they don't generate the same sympathy that African Americans and artists / bohemians / hippies do when they're priced out of their traditional hoods? The Heights used to have rednecks when I was growing up. Is it somehow "wrong" that they've been gentrified out?
Probably where I diverge on this issue is, in my view, it's not a question of right or wrong, good vs. evil. I'm not "pro-" or "anti-" gentrification. It's like being pro- or anti-erosion to me. It's sort of a force of nature.
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:26 PM
 
39 posts, read 6,626 times
Reputation: 45
It's white people's responsibility to preserve the particulars of their own intraracial heritage(italian, german, redneck, hipster, lgbt, artsy etc). Y'all are the most powerful group, so the only people who could erase that heritage is yourselves.

Y'all failing to do that doesn't give you a pass to come in erase the heritage of an entire race/ethnicity who's heritage in this city is even older and has been through everything we've been through. If a bunch of rich African-American from lets say queens, new york were gentrifing away the rurban charm that defines Acres Homes, then that would be a internal issue that our community would simply have to deal with in house. Not something we could or should take out on another group.

Last edited by JYHTOWN; 12-05-2019 at 12:37 PM..
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,543 posts, read 5,309,569 times
Reputation: 4469
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
It's white people's responsibility to preserve the particulars of their own intraracial heritage(italian, german, redneck, hipster, lgbt, artsy etc). Y'all are the most powerful group, so the only people who could erase that heritage is yourselves.

Y'all failing to do that doesn't give you a pass to come in erase the heritage of an entire race/ethnicity who's heritage in this city is even older and has been through everything we've been through. If a bunch of rich African-American from lets say queens, new york were gentrifing away the rurban charm that defines Acres Homes, then that would be a internal issue that our community would simply have to deal with in house. Not something we could or should take out on another group.
Gentrification is unambiguously a good thing. It creates wealth for multigenerational households it reduces crime in the area being gentrified. It just all around makes for a higher standard of living and a cleaner more modern city.

If there are historical buildings or areas, they are best preserved thought the State historical designations like what has been placed on the Astrodome.

It's like some groups are trying to create "Reservations " in our inner core, and that may be a good idea in the case of a neighborhood that was actually established as a Minority neighborhood, and not like the vast majority of minority neighborhoods that were transitioned into being minority neighborhoods.

Change can be good embrace it don't fear it or try to hide from it.
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:22 PM
 
39 posts, read 6,626 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
Gentrification is unambiguously a good thing. It creates wealth for multigenerational households it reduces crime in the area being gentrified. It just all around makes for a higher standard of living and a cleaner more modern city.

If there are historical buildings or areas, they are best preserved thought the State historical designations like what has been placed on the Astrodome.

It's like some groups are trying to create "Reservations " in our inner core, and that may be a good idea in the case of a neighborhood that was actually established as a Minority neighborhood, and not like the vast majority of minority neighborhoods that were transitioned into being minority neighborhoods.

Change can be good embrace it don't fear it or try to hide from it.

Crime in the inner city has been on a natural decline since the mid 90s. Nothing to do with gentrification. Gentrification does nothing but cause homelessness(there are plenty of credible peer review research to confirm this) and erases heritage.

And again you show your ignorance to the history of this city. The vast majority of black neighborhoods in the city were ALWAYS historically black.

3rd, 4th, 5th, wards, trinity & kashmere gardens, Studewood/IH, Acres Homes, Sunnyside, Clinton Park, Pleasantville, Bordersville etc(I could go on) were all established and built from the ground up by freed African-American slave and their children and grandchildren on empty lots and acreages. Hence the signature AA architectural style of the shotgun homes that line the streets in those places.

Again the entire city was a quarter enslaved(half for the county and others in the surround area), and were the ones tasked with the harsh work of dredging and clearing the land of the original townsite, which many of those enslaved individual literally died from. So, what is actually more likely is that the so called "historical white neighborhood" is a fraud and the foundation for them was actually laid by African-American slaves, unlike the historic AA neighborhood which were actually established, settled, and built by AAs themselves on their own for the express purpose of escaping white hegemony, oppression, and violence.

Not to mention the Houston Tap, the city's first railroad, which led to the first economic boom here was built by slave labor or the original Buffalo Bayou ship channel used primarily for importing and exporting cotton was ran by slave labor. The entire city simply wouldn't exist without the labor of enslaved African-Americans. Damn, a measly neighborhood.

You'd do yourself a favor by looking up "Freedmens towns" and "all black towns". There are/were more of these in Texas than any other state. And look at how many of them are majority white today. And you'll see who the real invaders and colonizers are.

Furthermore the few black neighborhoods that were once majority white don't have anywhere near as much heritage as the aforementioned, and became majority black through white people's own racism, and racist policies like discriminatory lending and redlining. And again a lot of these places have slave past anyway like South Park and Missouri City(look up the Water's plantation now known as Sienna Plantation).
https://www.siennatx.com/history

Last edited by JYHTOWN; 12-05-2019 at 01:54 PM..
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:50 PM
Status: "all photos ©2007-2020/jfre81" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: ✶✶Avondale/Logan Square, Chicago✶✶
14,725 posts, read 26,788,561 times
Reputation: 9905
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
It's white people's responsibility to preserve the particulars of their own intraracial heritage
Whoa, did I accidentally click a link to some white power skinhead board?
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Old 12-05-2019, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,543 posts, read 5,309,569 times
Reputation: 4469
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
Crime in the inner has been on a natural decline since the mid 90s. Nothing to do with gentrification. Gentrification does nothing but cause homelessness(there are plenty of credible peer review research to confirm this) and erases heritage.

And again you show your ignorance to the history of this city. The vast majority of black neighborhoods in the city were ALWAYS historically black.

3rd, 4th, 5th, wards, trinity & kashmere gardens, Studewood/IH, Acres Homes, Sunnyside, Clinton Park, Pleasantville, Bordersville etc(I could go on) were all established and built from the ground up by freed African-American slave and their children and grandchildren on empty lots. Hence the signature AA architectural style of the shotgun homes that line the streets in those places.

Again the entire city was a quarter enslaved(half for the county and others in the surround area), and were the ones tasked with the harsh work of dredging and clearing the land of the original townsite, which many of those enslaved individual literally died from. So, what is actually more likely is that the so called "historical white neighborhood" is a fraud and the foundation for them was actually laid by African-American slaves, unlike the historic AA neighborhood which were actually established, settled, and built by AAs themselves on their own for the express purpose of escaping white hegemony, oppression, and violence.

You'd do yourself a favor by looking up "Freedmens towns" and "all black towns". There are/were more of these in Texas than any other state. And look at how many of them are majority white today. And you'll see who the real invaders and colonizers are.
I have lived in Houston my whole life and I assure you most of the so-called AA neighborhoods were transitioned into. I used to sell Home Improvements and at one time could make claim that I had knocked on most of the front doors in Houston. I remember Key Map area 534 or the area on both sides of MLK south of McGreagor an all black neighborhood except for the occasional elderly white woman who was a relic of a time when the neighborhood was a white working class neighborhood and MLK was called South Park and the occasional Biker hideout. I remember the area called Hiram Clarke , Missouri City, Riverside Terrace and the list could go on and on. Yes many AA established their own neighborhoods and many are of historical significance , but such neighborhoods are not historically significant merely because they were established by minorities, and on top of that the original footprints of those neighborhoods/towns are a lot smaller than what you are trying to portray.

There are over a million and a half AA's maybe closer to two million in Greater Houston, and very few of them live in houses built by AA labor, the vast majority of us by any race are probably living in homes built by Hispanic immigrant labor.

Crime has been on the decline since the 1990's that is true, but that does not mean that gentrification is not lowering whatever the local crime rate is in the areas being gentrified , does it ? It is.

Change always has some winners and some losers but overall more people including minorities will benefit from gentrification than will benefit from the status quo of declining housing and urban blight...
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Old 12-05-2019, 02:03 PM
 
39 posts, read 6,626 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lance View Post
I have lived in Houston my whole life and I assure you most of the so-called AA neighborhoods were transitioned into. I used to sell Home Improvements and at one time could make claim that I had knocked on most of the front doors in Houston. I remember Key Map area 534 or the area on both sides of MLK south of McGreagor an all black neighborhood except for the occasional elderly white woman who was a relic of a time when the neighborhood was a white working class neighborhood and MLK was called South Park and the occasional Biker hideout. I remember the area called Hiram Clarke , Missouri City, Riverside Terrace and the list could go on and on. Yes many AA established their own neighborhoods and many are of historical significance , but such neighborhoods are not historically significant merely because they were established by minorities, and on top of that the original footprints of those neighborhoods/towns are a lot smaller than what you are trying to portray.

There are over a million and a half AA's maybe closer to two million in Greater Houston, and very few of them live in houses built by AA labor, the vast majority of us by any race are probably living in homes built by Hispanic immigrant labor.

Crime has been on the decline since the 1990's that is true, but that does not mean that gentrification is not lowering whatever the local crime rate is in the areas being gentrified , does it ? It is.

Change always has some winners and some losers but overall more people including minorities will benefit from gentrification than will benefit from the status quo of declining housing and urban blight...

Again, in case you missed it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post

Again the entire city was a quarter enslaved(half for the county and others in the surround area), and were the ones tasked with the harsh work of dredging and clearing the land of the original townsite, which many of those enslaved individual literally died from. So, what is actually more likely is that the so called "historical white neighborhood" is a fraud and the foundation for them was actually laid by African-American slaves, unlike the historic AA neighborhood which were actually established, settled, and built by AAs themselves on their own for the express purpose of escaping white hegemony, oppression, and violence.

Not to mention the Houston Tap, the city's first railroad, which led to the first economic boom here was built by slave labor or the original Buffalo Bayou ship channel used primarily for importing and exporting cotton was ran by slave labor. The entire city simply wouldn't exist without the labor of enslaved African-Americans. Damn, a measly neighborhood.

Furthermore the few black neighborhoods that were once majority white don't have anywhere near as much heritage as the aforementioned, and became majority black through white people's own racism, and racist policies like discriminatory lending and redlining. And again a lot of these places have slave past anyway like South Park and Missouri City(look up the Water's plantation now known as Sienna Plantation).

https://www.siennatx.com/history
Infrastructure isn't just houses btw. It was a black owned firm that revitalized Emancipation park in 2017.

It's like you're trying to ignore the fact the this city was originally built by slave labor and it's the fact that the economy was pretty much completely dependent on slave labor inside the city and of the surrounding areas. The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Your point about third ward has already been addressed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
That's what you think.
https://www.khou.com/article/mobile/...tion/409618200

And firstly, the northside and biggest part of third ward above truxillo st was always black. The shotgun homes that line the streets of third ward were built by hand by freed slaves and their children in traditional African-American architectural style on empty lots. The city as a whole was over a quarter enslaved before the civil war and was reliant on the cotton industry in the outlying rural areas(ie we built this city).

And the very first park in the entire state of TX, emancipation park, was established by freed black slaves in 1872 in third ward.

The entire culture of third ward from the music, food, art, architecture was built by African-Americans.

White people contributed nothing to third ward. White people sure as hell weren't the reason Dowling st(thankfully renamed to Emancipation blvd) became the hub for Houston's first music(blues) scene.

The oldest standing restaurant in third ward, This is it Soul Food, sure as hell wasn't established by white people in 1959.

Third Wards oldest and only hospital, Riverside General Hospital formerly known as The Houston Negro Hospital, sure as hell wasn't established by white people.

Secondly, white people abandoned the smaller south third ward because of suburbanization, discriminatory lending, and red lining that regulated black people to only live in certain parts of the city and out of most suburbs whereas white people were free to cash in on their small urban homes for much bigger nicer looking properties in the burbs. Good riddens to 'em.

If you think we will just roll over and wont fight back then clearly you haven't studied the history of this city or even just third ward.

Last edited by JYHTOWN; 12-05-2019 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 12-05-2019, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Northwest Houston
5,543 posts, read 5,309,569 times
Reputation: 4469
Quote:
Originally Posted by JYHTOWN View Post
Again, in case you missed it.



Infrastructure isn't just houses btw. It was a black owned firm that revitalized Emancipation park in 2017.

It's like you're trying to ignore the fact the this city was originally built by slave labor and it's the fact that the economy was pretty much completely dependent on slave labor inside the city and of the surrounding areas. The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

Your point about third ward has already been addressed.
The total population of Houston in 1870 ,5 years after emancipation, was 9,382, even if the entirety of that number were AA the footprint compared with the 7 million Metro we have today would be tiny.....
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Old 12-05-2019, 05:06 PM
Status: "all photos ©2007-2020/jfre81" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: ✶✶Avondale/Logan Square, Chicago✶✶
14,725 posts, read 26,788,561 times
Reputation: 9905
Maybe one day we'll all just be thankful that the Indians didn't spear and scalp everyone who showed up on their land who didn't look like them, because none of this discussion would be happening if they did.
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