[equid0x]

Originally Posted by Futuremauian

The Purell Bottle I'm looking at right now is 65% Ethyl Alcohol.

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-comp...99132-01172020

adding this in for additional flavor...

"These statements, made in the context of the Frequently Asked Questions section, clearly indicate your suggestion that PURELL® Healthcare Advanced Hand Sanitizers are intended for reducing or preventing disease from the Ebola virus, norovirus, and influenza. As such, the statements are evidence of your products’ intended uses. However, FDA is currently not aware of any adequate and well-controlled studies demonstrating that killing or decreasing the number of bacteria or viruses on the skin by a certain magnitude produces a corresponding clinical reduction in infection or disease caused by such bacteria or virus."

[OmegaSupreme]

Originally Posted by rhuff80

....... People sneeze a fair amount in public without covering up and cough ALL THE TIME in public without covering their mouths, especially kids.

So, with that being said, the aerosol from a cough/sneeze can last in the air for up to 45 minutes.
......

This is one of the main reasons I hate (lots of) people.

If people did the right thing, infections from this and the seasonal flu would be all but gone.

I try to sneeze into a tissue and then dispose of it, and do so 90% of the time and the other 10% of the time is best practice as well. That and staying home when I'm sick and keeping other people away from me.

[RationalExpectations]

Originally Posted by equid0x

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-comp...99132-01172020

adding this in for additional flavor...

"These statements, made in the context of the Frequently Asked Questions section, clearly indicate your suggestion that PURELL® Healthcare Advanced Hand Sanitizers are intended for reducing or preventing disease from the Ebola virus, norovirus, and influenza. As such, the statements are evidence of your products’ intended uses. However, FDA is currently not aware of any adequate and well-controlled studies demonstrating that killing or decreasing the number of bacteria or viruses on the skin by a certain magnitude produces a corresponding clinical reduction in infection or disease caused by such bacteria or virus."

I'm writing this from memory, so I may have some inaccuracies here.

• First, a virion (the singular of the plural virus) is not alive. Because it is not alive, you cannot kill it. It is a strand of DNA. This DNA is protected by a shell of fat (lipid). Alcohol dissolves fat, which exposes the interior DNA so it rapidly degrades to be harmless.
  
• The Norovirus - the virus that hit cruise ships very hard - does not have that protective shell of fat; that's why alcohol-based sanitizers don't work well (if at all) on them.
  
• The Novel Coronavirus does indeed have a shell of fat. Therefore, alcohol works well to destroy the virus (remember, you can't kill something that was never alive in the first place.)
  
• Hot water dissolves fat. That's why hot water works to destroy the Novel Coronavirus.
  
• Soap dissolves fat. That's why washing your hands and other things with soap works to destroy the virus. One thing I'm not clear on is this: we are told to work up a significant lather - plenty of foam. I haven't read an explanation on this.

THE FDA's MISSION is to STOP bad things from happening: STOP products based on junk science, voodoo, and witchcraft. STOP new prescription medicine from coming to market if it's effectiveness is questionable or has harmful side effects. STOP new vaccines from coming to market unless they are safe and effective.

Career mandarins and bureaucrats at the FDA have the incentive to STOP forward progress. They get a pat on the back if nothing new comes to market, because they have stopped a potential harm. Even in this time of crisis, these government employees' primary objective is to protect their jobs and future pensions by STOPPING forward progress. If they somehow allow something new to come to market, and god forbid it is like Thalidomidehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Birth_defect_crisis, that is career suicide for them. If they somehow STOP a wonder drug from coming to market because of some risk, they get a pat on the back and their pensions are safe.

No one at the FDA or elsewhere in government has as their mission to facilitate bringing a new vaccines, medicines, treatment, tests etc to market. There have been many books written, academic papers published and PhD dissertations written about the harm the FDA has caused by blocking new medications and treatments that elsewhere in the world seem to be acceptable.

Thus, regarding Purell, I personally take the FDA's statement with a big grain of salt.

[Futuremauian]

Originally Posted by equid0x

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-comp...99132-01172020

adding this in for additional flavor...

"These statements, made in the context of the Frequently Asked Questions section, clearly indicate your suggestion that PURELL® Healthcare Advanced Hand Sanitizers are intended for reducing or preventing disease from the Ebola virus, norovirus, and influenza. As such, the statements are evidence of your products’ intended uses. However, FDA is currently not aware of any adequate and well-controlled studies demonstrating that killing or decreasing the number of bacteria or viruses on the skin by a certain magnitude produces a corresponding clinical reduction in infection or disease caused by such bacteria or virus."

I addressed your claim that Purell is NOT 60-70% alcohol by stating that it is, in fact, 65% alcohol.

You responded with a long, hard to follow "warning letter" that seems to cast doubt upon the notion that hand sanitizer is even useful.

Way to move the goalpost!

[EA]

Does anyone have any good recipes for hand sanitizer toilet paper stew?

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by RationalExpectations

I'm writing this from memory, so I may have some inaccuracies here.

• First, a virion (the singular of the plural virus) is not alive. Because it is not alive, you cannot kill it. It is a strand of DNA. This DNA is protected by a shell of fat (lipid). Alcohol dissolves fat, which exposes the interior DNA so it rapidly degrades to be harmless.
  
• The Norovirus - the virus that hit cruise ships very hard - does not have that protective shell of fat; that's why alcohol-based sanitizers don't work well (if at all) on them.
  
• The Novel Coronavirus does indeed have a shell of fat. Therefore, alcohol works well to destroy the virus (remember, you can't kill something that was never alive in the first place.)
  
• Hot water dissolves fat. That's why hot water works to destroy the Novel Coronavirus.
  
• Soap dissolves fat. That's why washing your hands and other things with soap works to destroy the virus. One thing I'm not clear on is this: we are told to work up a significant lather - plenty of foam. I haven't read an explanation on this.

THE FDA's MISSION is to STOP bad things from happening: STOP products based on junk science, voodoo, and witchcraft. STOP new prescription medicine from coming to market if it's effectiveness is questionable or has harmful side effects. STOP new vaccines from coming to market unless they are safe and effective.

Career mandarins and bureaucrats at the FDA have the incentive to STOP forward progress. They get a pat on the back if nothing new comes to market, because they have stopped a potential harm. Even in this time of crisis, these government employees' primary objective is to protect their jobs and future pensions by STOPPING forward progress. If they somehow allow something new to come to market, and god forbid it is like Thalidomidehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide#Birth_defect_crisis, that is career suicide for them. If they somehow STOP a wonder drug from coming to market because of some risk, they get a pat on the back and their pensions are safe.

No one at the FDA or elsewhere in government has as their mission to facilitate bringing a new vaccines, medicines, treatment, tests etc to market. There have been many books written, academic papers published and PhD dissertations written about the harm the FDA has caused by blocking new medications and treatments that elsewhere in the world seem to be acceptable.

Thus, regarding Purell, I personally take the FDA's statement with a big grain of salt.

Orrrrrrr..... it could just be that GOJO's claims about it's products are completely made up and have not one shred of scientific research backing any of their claims.

We used to call that "snake oil" ... you know, the whole reason we created the FDA in the first place which is to keep vendors from making false claims about the efficacy of their products.

If you can read, the FDA is basically saying GOJO's claims are bunk science and totally unfounded and to either turn over the research backing their claims or to stop making those claims about it's products.

Seems pretty clear to me the US FDA doesn't think hand sanitizers actually work, and I agree.

[ddrhazy]

What I don't understand is how long is the western world going to keep it's mouth shut when this is the 3rd virus to originate from China in the last 2 decades?

The west must demand UN inspectors be allowed broad access to the wet markets in China and other SE Asian countries to minimize selling bush meat in these markets. Also the CCP must be forced to go after the poachers and institute heavy fines and jail time.

[equid0x]

Originally Posted by Futuremauian

I addressed your claim that Purell is NOT 60-70% alcohol by stating that it is, in fact, 65% alcohol.

You responded with a long, hard to follow "warning letter" that seems to cast doubt upon the notion that hand sanitizer is even useful.

Way to move the goalpost!

I didn't move the goalposts. The patented version of all Purell products contains the active ingredient:

Benzalkonium Chloride 0.13%

It appears that Gojo is now selling a new "patent pending" formulation under the Purell brand name in response to the FDA warning letter.

You can find both on the GOJO website.

At any rate, your ridiculous outburst doesn't really negate anything I said. Until January 2020 hand sanitizer products sold under the Purell brand did not work against Covid-19. Since GOJO invented it, it's probably pretty safe to say nearly every other knockoff also didn't work, since they would have copied or licensed the recipe.

Clearly, manufacturers have changed their practices in light of the FDA investigation.

It's probably pretty safe to say there was still a fair amount of the previous product in circulation the first few weeks following announcement of the outbreak, when everyone was buying out stocks.

It also doesn't change the fact your doctor was using an FDA unapproved and untested drug on patients. I would find such a practice to be extremely questionable. Not all doctors are good ones. Mine washes his hands and puts on gloves from a sterile package.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by ddrhazy

What I don't understand is how long is the western world going to keep it's mouth shut when this is the 3rd virus to originate from China in the last 2 decades?

The west must demand UN inspectors be allowed broad access to the wet markets in China and other SE Asian countries to minimize selling bush meat in these markets. Also the CCP must be forced to go after the poachers and institute heavy fines and jail time.

You appear to believe that wet markets have been involved in multiple incidents. Kindly cite your source.

I thought eating raw fish was unthinkable when I went first to Japan. Came back and a Japanese friend took my wife and I to a good sushi restaurant. My wife loved it and I eventually joined her after she beat me out of my bias.

So you need something more specific. Weird diet is not threatening. Just different unless data says otherwise. +

[Merrily Gather]

Patient zero in China was a female shrimp vendor at the wet market.