14 year old shooting brings protests (Tempe: living, dangerous, legally)

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by jnojr

Exactly. The absence of fear is the polar opposite of bravery... what does your "bravery" cost you if you perceive no risk? But knowing you're going into harms way, being afraid, but doing it anyway... that is bravery.

Ahh.. "Bravery"..

So, let's salute the awesome and wonderful people who risk their lives for us, every day they go to work..

1) loggers
2) fishermen
3) aircraft pilots
4) roofers
5) garbage collectors.

Cops are exponentially less likely to get injured or killed on the job than the fine folks above.

https://www.businessinsider.com/the-...america-2018-7

Then, let's have a rational discussion about repercussions for shooting someone in the back who is running away from you & let's leave "bravery" out of it, because it doesn't belong there.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by jnojr

Just because policing isn't among the top ten most dangerous jobs (and I have to take issue with that, because it's based on mortality and doesn't take into account the actual risks) doesn't mean it isn't a very dangerous job. Cops deal with the dregs of humanity, those who have little to lose, are whacked on all sorts of drugs, aren't very smart, have cornered themselves in life, etc. Who else needs to be constantly worried that someone's going to pop up and shoot them out of the blue? Lots of criminals hate cops, or see one and assume they're there to arrest them for what they did last night, etc.

You're wrong. There's no other way to put it. Cops are not perfect. They aren't shining heroes wearing capes. Some are dumb, some are brutes, some lose their stuff and do terrible things. But most are there to put themselves between us and the goblins, and they pay a high price for it. My mom dealt a lot with the PD, and is friends with current and former cops. She's used to winding up at the back of a restaurant with their backs to the wall, or the "I know that guy, didn't know he was on parole, wonder what he's doing right now?" Their lives and perceptions are twisted by the monsters they deal with every single day. And even as that suspicion contaminates them, they still go out there and try to stop the monsters, even when so many are so happy to second-quess and Monday-morning-QB them.

Again, I posted an article- there are lots of them that prove that policing in itself isn't particularly dangerous- truck drivers are way higher on the list & most cops that get killed do it in driving accidents, not shootouts. I've held lots of jobs that were much more risky on a statistical basis than "cop" and I've never had a job where carrying a firearm was even allowed, much less having the "freedom" to shoot someone in the back & then claim "I was skeered " with no evidence to back that up, then to be "presumed" to have magically seen something that wasn't captured on camera. Suspension of disbelief runs rampant here apparently.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

Shooting a 14 year old kid in the back while he is running away from you, is not brave.

Typical of the bleeding heart liberal mindset: a 14 year old worthless hoodlum was shot while COMMITING A CRIME, and the officer is the bad guy. And what difference does it make how old he was anyway?! I'm fed up with this attitude that a person who is under a certain age should be given extra protection, not be held responsible for his/her actions, etc. More than likely, this kid was preparing for a life of crime, and the cop took care of that in one blast. One less piece of juvenile scum to support with our tax money. The officer should be given a medal of honor as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Then, let's have a rational discussion about repercussions for shooting someone in the back who is running away from you & let's leave "bravery" out of it, because it doesn't belong there.

I knew it wouldn't be too long until the police haters showed up. We all know there are cops who are idiots and jerks, just as there are idiots & jerks in all professions. If you can't understand that most police officers are hard working and commit to a life of crime fighting, then you need a head examination.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Typical of the bleeding heart liberal mindset: a 14 year old worthless hoodlum was shot while COMMITING A CRIME, and the officer is the bad guy. And what difference does it make how old he was anyway?! I'm fed up with this attitude that a person who is under a certain age should be given extra protection, not be held responsible for his/her actions, etc. More than likely, this kid was preparing for a life of crime, and the cop took care of that in one blast. One less piece of juvenile scum to support with our tax money. The officer should be given a medal of honor as far as I'm concerned.



I knew it wouldn't be too long until the police haters showed up. We all know there are cops who are idiots and jerks, just as there are idiots & jerks in all professions. If you can't understand that most police officers are hard working and commit to a life of crime fighting, then you need a head examination.

If you can't recognize that we actually need real oversight and supervision of the "idiots and jerks" (and the occasional murderer) on our police forces, then you need a head examination. "Cops investigate cops" doesn't work, hasn't worked & won't ever work to protect the public.

[Adamson865]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

If you can't recognize that we actually need real oversight and supervision of the "idiots and jerks" (and the occasional murderer) on our police forces, then you need a head examination. "Cops investigate cops" doesn't work, hasn't worked & won't ever work to protect the public.

^ This. I wish I could rep you a few dozen times.

I've spent enough time around marginalized & minority communities to know that very often, they are treated very badly by cops. As a gay man, I've been treated badly by city police on a couple occasions (not in Arizona - yet). As a result, I am very distrustful of police - and those (invariably white) folks who pontificate from the comfort of their gated community that "all you have to do is obey all the laws and you'll be fine" (while violating all sorts of traffic laws every time they leave their house, and invariably cheating on their taxes) are speaking from a comfy position of white privilege and have no clue what the real world is like.

[ringler24]

Originally Posted by Adamson520

^ This. I wish I could rep you a few dozen times.

I've spent enough time around marginalized & minority communities to know that very often, they are treated very badly by cops. As a gay man, I've been treated badly by city police on a couple occasions (not in Arizona - yet). As a result, I am very distrustful of police - and those (invariably white) folks who pontificate from the comfort of their gated community that "all you have to do is obey all the laws and you'll be fine" (while violating all sorts of traffic laws every time they leave their house, and invariably cheating on their taxes) are speaking from a comfy position of white privilege and have no clue what the real world is like.

All of this ^^^^^^^

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Adamson520

^ This. I wish I could rep you a few dozen times.

I've spent enough time around marginalized & minority communities to know that very often, they are treated very badly by cops. As a gay man, I've been treated badly by city police on a couple occasions (not in Arizona - yet). As a result, I am very distrustful of police - and those (invariably white) folks who pontificate from the comfort of their gated community that "all you have to do is obey all the laws and you'll be fine" (while violating all sorts of traffic laws every time they leave their house, and invariably cheating on their taxes) are speaking from a comfy position of white privilege and have no clue what the real world is like.

WAAAAH, WAAAAH, those horrible cops are abusing all those poor minorities and gays because of who they are. That poor underprivileged 14 year old didn't do anything wrong. Why, he was just being a kid. The little angel didn't deserve to be shot, but those mean, evil, racist cops killed him because of who he was. Boo hoo hoo! And those privileged white folks sitting in their gated communities are so hateful of everybody who isn't just like them, while the people in minority neighborhoods love & respect every human being, don't make any racist remarks, and never commit any crimes. Cry me a river, Adamson, and cry me an ocean while you're at it!
()

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Adamson520

^ This. I wish I could rep you a few dozen times.

I've spent enough time around marginalized & minority communities to know that very often, they are treated very badly by cops. As a gay man, I've been treated badly by city police on a couple occasions (not in Arizona - yet). As a result, I am very distrustful of police - and those (invariably white) folks who pontificate from the comfort of their gated community that "all you have to do is obey all the laws and you'll be fine" (while violating all sorts of traffic laws every time they leave their house, and invariably cheating on their taxes) are speaking from a comfy position of white privilege and have no clue what the real world is like.

Okay...so Antonio Arce (Hispanic kid) was shot during the commission of a felony (Armed Burglary) by Officer Jaen (Hispanic Police Officer). The only people bringing race into this is the racists themselves...which would be you. Obeying the law is common sense. Don't break the law...the police don't get called. It is pretty much cause and effect. BTW...thank you for clarifying that you are a "gay man"...would you happen to participate in crossfit and perhaps be vegan as well? I am pretty sure your sexual orientation has absolutely NOTHING to do with this incident.

[ncole1]

Originally Posted by Bummer

The key term in your post, Keninaz . . . is PARENTS.

Unfortunately, most of these "kids" roaming the streets committing crimes as in this care do not have PARENTS . . . more like "Egg Donors" as they run wild with little to no guidance and/or respect for others taught at home.

Lest some think otherwise, studies consistently show authoritarian parenting to be the most likely to lead to aggressive behavior in kids. Being “tough” is not the solution. If a child, or anyone at any age, is starting to become violent, they need therapy, which is seriously lacking in the US (at least quality mental health services are).

While every society must confine certain dangerous individuals, the best hope of actually rehabilitating those with mental disturbances is not just to lock them in a room with other bullies and mobsters and hope the problem will solve itself.

Also, how do you blame parents for people with violent behavior due to paranoid schizophrenia which often has an onset in a person’s twenties, after they are legally an adult and often not living with their parents?

[cactusland]

1. The boy was a burglary suspect.
2. The boy at the time, was not assumed underage, and often times you cannot tell. Cops coming to a call of a 'burglary' assume usually that the person doing the 'burgling' is armed with some sort of weapon.
3. The suspect pulled out an airsoft gun. At that time in the moment, there was no way for the policeman to know the suspect was not carrying a real gun. In that moment, it looked like a firearm, and therefore had to be treated like a firearm, which meant the suspect had, and may be intending to use, deadly force.
4. If the suspect was shot in the back while trying to escape, that certainly isn't good, however there are probably more fine details about how that happened. (Blind shot?) If it was a clear shot, that wasn't a good move.
5. Once the airsoft gun was pulled, it was no longer a 'game.' Cops assume deadly force is just that - deadly force.
6. Both people involved were Hispanic, and male. Race, gender, and sexual orientation really have nothing to do with this situation.

I'm sure I missed something, but is that the gist of it?