14 year old shooting brings protests (2013, renting, neighborhoods)

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

Shooting a 14 year old kid in the back while he is running away from you, is not brave.

Put on a badge, walk a beat, deal with the dregs of society day in and day out, fear that today may be your last day every time you go to work, deal with the fear and uncertainty in your significant other's and children's eyes every time you say goodbye, the relief in their faces when you come home, your partner's constant anxiety of receiving "the call"...but you suit up everyday and do your job. Sheepdogs have a mentality that your feeble understanding of society will never understand nor (apparently) appreciate.

We have seen what Oregon has done to hamstring their Officers and it is sickening. We, as a society, pay these individuals to keep us safe from criminals. It doesn't mean they are devoid of any natural human emotion nor are they robots that only see things in absolutes. They have to make judgment calls, they are human and have been trained, per their departments guidelines, how to behave in certain circumstances.

This issue with the 14 year old...I watched the video...I question the need to open fire but I wasn't there. Watching it from the comfort of your home on a video screen doesn't translate the stresses of the situation, for both the Police Officer or the Criminal. There is one simple way that this whole situation could have been avoided. The kid could have chosen NOT to break into the truck. He wouldn't have been there, the police would not have been called and this kid would NOT have had a run in with a police officer that day. Done and done. Now we have 1 life lost and another that has to face the fact, for the rest of theirs, that they took another human being's life, justified or not.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Gixxer1K

So are you telling me that those who were in the towers during 911 helping others are not considered a hero? Because I bet most if not everyone of them were in fear and scared $!#@less!

Maybe you should put on the uniform and go out on the streets and see what they encounter on a daily basis. When someone points a gun at you and you only have a split second to react are you going to be able to tell if that gun is real or fake? How about we start holding parents liable for the kids dumb mistakes? Are there bad cops...sure there are. Are there good parents who's kids just turn out bad...Yes. But a 14 year old should know better than to point a gun at a cop.

9/11 *should* have served as a lesson in individual responsibility in a crisis & not "trusting the government" to nanny-your-behind into perpetual "safety". There were people in the second tower that fell who (rightly, in hindsight!) decided for themselves to evacuate & who were told over the PA system to go back to work & not to evacuate. The passengers on the planes that crashed into the buildings were told to sit-down-and-shut-up - and the ones that followed orders were rewarded with being splattered into oblivion.

The security theater that allowed 9/11 to happen was magnified to ridiculous levels & now lots of old ladies with replacement hips get to spend a half-hour getting anal probes while young men who look just like the hijackers can walk through security at warp-speed because they have lots of Hilton points & "diamond" status with the airlines.

You're not any safer since 9/11, but you're paying for a lot more mediocre paper-pushers in government & now they have the "right" to snoop on your email & track your movements with license-plate readers. The "patriot" act may well lead to the complete loss of our bill of rights.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

Nothing in that ready made rant against cops applies to or disproves what I posted: that bravery is NOT an absence of fear as Cloudy Dayz keeps saying.

This concept applies to everyone, not just cops. From the soldier in battle to the average joe who witnesses a traumatic event and decides to help. If you’re not afraid, there is something else going on in your head which very few people experience, about 5% according to Colonel Grossman who is an expert in the field of human response to violence.

Hate on cops all you want, I wasn’t commenting on that portion of this discussion. My mind will never be swayed in that regard.

Oh, my "rant" certainly does disprove your post. Cops have *irrational* levels of fear - as evidenced by shooting children in the back who are running away from them. They are not "heroes" by virtue of putting on a costume & collecting a 20-year pension.

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

So...if you are of a different ethnicity you should NOT obey the laws and NOT follow a LEO's orders? I don't understand what your skin tone has to do with whether or not you have to comply with the law?

Apparently that's the line of thinking with a lot of these people. Now, wait for a few people to call me racist in 3, 2, 1...

Originally Posted by Adamson520

Let me guess - you're white.

Reread the comment about following directions and not breaking the law. The people who get shot because they are too STUPID to follow those simple rules. (whether they are white, black, red, green, purple, striped or polka dotted) don't deserve any sympathy. And at 14 you're old enough to know better.

[Airborneguy]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Oh, my "rant" certainly does disprove your post. Cops have *irrational* levels of fear - as evidenced by shooting children in the back who are running away from them. They are not "heroes" by virtue of putting on a costume & collecting a 20-year pension.

Ok, so show me the part of my original post where I mentioned cps and heroes. Let’s start there.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Put on a badge, walk a beat, deal with the dregs of society day in and day out, fear that today may be your last day every time you go to work, deal with the fear and uncertainty in your significant other's and children's eyes every time you say goodbye, the relief in their faces when you come home, your partner's constant anxiety of receiving "the call"...but you suit up everyday and do your job. Sheepdogs have a mentality that your feeble understanding of society will never understand nor (apparently) appreciate.

We have seen what Oregon has done to hamstring their Officers and it is sickening. We, as a society, pay these individuals to keep us safe from criminals. It doesn't mean they are devoid of any natural human emotion nor are they robots that only see things in absolutes. They have to make judgment calls, they are human and have been trained, per their departments guidelines, how to behave in certain circumstances.

This issue with the 14 year old...I watched the video...I question the need to open fire but I wasn't there. Watching it from the comfort of your home on a video screen doesn't translate the stresses of the situation, for both the Police Officer or the Criminal. There is one simple way that this whole situation could have been avoided. The kid could have chosen NOT to break into the truck. He wouldn't have been there, the police would not have been called and this kid would NOT have had a run in with a police officer that day. Done and done. Now we have 1 life lost and another that has to face the fact, for the rest of theirs, that they took another human being's life, justified or not.

Lol, "sheepdogs".. :-).

A reference to those who uphold the constitution?

I would argue that those who protest unfair and incorrect actions of government officials are the true "sheepdogs" in our society. Those who sense a danger from a distance- like unaccountable government agents free to murder, then acquit themselves. "The police investigated the police, and found no wrongdoing ".. What a glorious and refreshing surprise!

[KurtAZ]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Lol, "sheepdogs".. :-).

A reference to those who uphold the constitution?

I would argue that those who protest unfair and incorrect actions of government officials are the true "sheepdogs" in our society. Those who sense a danger from a distance- like unaccountable government agents free to murder, then acquit themselves. "The police investigated the police, and found no wrongdoing ".. What a glorious and refreshing surprise!

I would argue that the protesters are "bleating sheep", unable or too cowardly to actually do the job of protecting the flock. But...obviously your view of the situation is not going to be altered so you keep being angry at the departments that keep you safe. The Police will still respond to your 911 call and do their duty, whether you hate them or not.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by Airborneguy

Nothing in that ready made rant against cops applies to or disproves what I posted: that bravery is NOT an absence of fear as Cloudy Dayz keeps saying.

Exactly. The absence of fear is the polar opposite of bravery... what does your "bravery" cost you if you perceive no risk? But knowing you're going into harms way, being afraid, but doing it anyway... that is bravery.

[ColoGuy]

Without video we have very little proof. It was my understanding that video showed the kid was running away when he was fatally shot. If so there is way too much of that. I am inclined to consider the hiring and training criteria. This is a macho culture, we glorify deadly SWAT team raids - that happen more than the rest of the world combined.

Its all good - until it happens to you?
They came for the XXXXXXXXXX and I did not care. Etc.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

No, not "everyone" & just because a myth is popular doesn't make it a fact. Police unions have made lots of hay discussing how "dangerous" a cop's job is, but it's not even in the top ten most dangerous occupations based on reality.

Just because policing isn't among the top ten most dangerous jobs (and I have to take issue with that, because it's based on mortality and doesn't take into account the actual risks) doesn't mean it isn't a very dangerous job. Cops deal with the dregs of humanity, those who have little to lose, are whacked on all sorts of drugs, aren't very smart, have cornered themselves in life, etc. Who else needs to be constantly worried that someone's going to pop up and shoot them out of the blue? Lots of criminals hate cops, or see one and assume they're there to arrest them for what they did last night, etc.

You're wrong. There's no other way to put it. Cops are not perfect. They aren't shining heroes wearing capes. Some are dumb, some are brutes, some lose their stuff and do terrible things. But most are there to put themselves between us and the goblins, and they pay a high price for it. My mom dealt a lot with the PD, and is friends with current and former cops. She's used to winding up at the back of a restaurant with their backs to the wall, or the "I know that guy, didn't know he was on parole, wonder what he's doing right now?" Their lives and perceptions are twisted by the monsters they deal with every single day. And even as that suspicion contaminates them, they still go out there and try to stop the monsters, even when so many are so happy to second-quess and Monday-morning-QB them.