Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You should really go to some open meetings of AA sometime. It's obviuous that you have no clue what you are talking about. You should also get over your resentment against religion.
I have been. I've been to AA, NA, Gamanon, Codependents Anonymous, SLA, OA...enough? Can you say the same? Oh, and Alanon. I very much doubt you have the "resume" I do.
As to my "resentment" against religion? It was the right wing fundamentalist Christians that supported Bush 43 that got us into our current wars in large part, so forget that, not to mention how much blood hasn't been spilled in the name of religion?
I used to be a fundie myself and will NEVER be deprogrammed from that experience.
Quote:
Again let us say you are correct. AA is a religious organization. So what? What wrong with religion?
Nothing. As long as XA stops the line about it being spiritual rather than religious, I have no issue with it. This will confuse fewer people and those who want to go to a religious program can, much like those who go to Celebrate Recovery know what they are getting into.
First question, how would you know what AA does or does not do?
Second question, wanting to promote other choices is no waste of time. This battle won't be won by people not having more choices.
Third point, are you aware that in AA people have been told to quit their meds prescribed by their Drs. in the name of "that's not "real" sobriety" only to commit suicide?
Fourth, this isn't about ME, it's about all the people out there who have been brainwashed by AA to believe they have two choices - go to AA or drink and die.
Now, I really look forward to your answering my questions.
Apparently you have me twitted, but I'll still respond.
1) I know what AA does and doesn't do, for me. As does each individual. And how would you know what AA does or does not do?
2) People are welcome to try anything that they like. People have as many choices as they like. Many have tried everything else that they could think of and come to AA when everything else has failed.
3) That is not the standard. And people are also told to quit their meds from family members. AA has no opinion on medication. That's up to a person and their doctor. If someone told you to jump off of a bridge, would you do it?
4) Who has been brainwashed? I went to a lot of meetings for my first 1.5 years. Then I tapered off as I became more comfortable in my sobriety. That's what most people do. In times of crisis, I'll go to a meeting, why not? It's free, I get support and know that others are working through the same type of issues that I am without resorting to drugs & alcohol. Seems pretty healthy to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
Wow, your hatred of religion is shining through. You may not agree with the whole church thing, but many people get something out of it. And it's not up to you to decide if that's a good thing or bad thing. Same with the 12 step.
I'm atheist, feel little but contempt for religion and its hypocrites, yet still make AA work for me.
Go figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092
ETA: I have a story about this. There is this woman who heads up a SMART meeting. So she decided to go to the local AA club and put flyers on cars to promote SMART (as one never knows - perhaps for some it would have been a better fit). So she is all of 5 feet and 100 lbs. This guy comes out of AA and threatens her calling her a POS and then goes back in for reinforcement. She calmly explained to both of them that what she was doing was legal and asked them why they would not want people to have more choices. If you ask me, that woman had guts. I, personally, would not have done it for fear of getting beaten up or something. This is why I'd like to see XA take a back seat for a while. would not have done it for fear of getting beaten up or something. This is why I'd like to see XA take a back seat for a while.
Anecdote does not equal data.
And I'm sure you're not going to listen to anything good about the program because of your contempt for it.
Have at it, AA will be around after you and I are long dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistygrl092
I have been. I've been to AA, NA, Gamanon, Codependents Anonymous, SLA, OA...enough? Can you say the same? Oh, and Alanon. I very much doubt you have the "resume" I do.
As to my "resentment" against religion? It was the right wing fundamentalist Christians that supported Bush 43 that got us into our current wars in large part, so forget that, not to mention how much blood hasn't been spilled in the name of religion?
I used to be a fundie myself and will NEVER be deprogrammed from that experience.
Nothing. As long as XA stops the line about it being spiritual rather than religious, I have no issue with it. This will confuse fewer people and those who want to go to a religious program can, much like those who go to Celebrate Recovery know what they are getting into.
Keep the politics out of this.
So you're a program jumper; how's that working for you?
I've never had reason to go to SLA or Gamanon, or CA, but I have been to ACOA.
Gee, you're really trying to throw 12-step creds out here?
Hahaha. My almost 30 is cred enough for me.
Do you have any clean/sober time?
Aren't your programs working for you.
No one cares if you use or not, or if you like AA or not.
It would be nice if you found a way to get yourself some help.
Blaming others just doesn't work, does it?
My mother in law runs a recovery clinic in Alameda County. Both for drugs and alcohol abuse (yes, before some smarta$$ says it, I know alcohol is a drug). I'm often brought in and help teach during certain parts of the courses (this includes DUI schools).
While the 12 Step Program maybe old and outdated, like it or not, it HAS worked for MILLIONS of people, across the world. Due certain things need to be updated, again, probably; however, how about coming up with the changes you would like to see, and put forth them? Whining about it won't change anything.
In so far as criminals being in these meetings, yes, you are correct. They are quite often court ordered to go; why? Because it works? Where I live, there are many female meetings only. Predators? Well, aren't you an adult? You are there trying to get clean/sober, not find a date for Friday night. If you can't say "no," or turn that person off, you have bigger issues then being in a 12 Step Program. Predators are everywhere.
Well, I do hope your MIL has checked into LifeRing as an alternative to AA up there then, since it originated in the Bay Area. What changes would I like to see made? Many. First, let's ditch the labels. Second, let's ditch the chapter to the wives. Third, let's update the sacred Big Book to reflect modern times. Fourth, let's stop referring to God as "him." Fifth, let's stop pretending it's not a religious program. Enough to chew on for a while?
As far as the "whys" as to why criminals are sent there? It's because it's easy for the courts to just dump them there, plain and simple, not necessarily because "it works." And who said anything about trying to find a date? But I shouldn't be forced to hold hands with some rapist at the end of a meeting either or be shunned for leaving before the end of the meeting. And while predators may be everywhere, you have, by your own admission, stated the percentages are higher in those XA groups.
Well, I do hope your MIL has checked into LifeRing as an alternative to AA up there then, since it originated in the Bay Area. What changes would I like to see made? Many. First, let's ditch the labels. Second, let's ditch the chapter to the wives. Third, let's update the sacred Big Book to reflect modern times. Fourth, let's stop referring to God as "him." Fifth, let's stop pretending it's not a religious program. Enough to chew on for a while?
As far as the "whys" as to why criminals are sent there? It's because it's easy for the courts to just dump them there, plain and simple, not necessarily because "it works." And who said anything about trying to find a date? But I shouldn't be forced to hold hands with some rapist at the end of a meeting either or be shunned for leaving before the end of the meeting. And while predators may be everywhere, you have, by your own admission, stated the percentages are higher in those XA groups.
Yet, you label others as "robbers" and other criminals.
If they are there, they have either not been convicted or, have done their time.
I don't think that AA is the best place for the OP to find the help she needs.
I just hope she seeks help.
Me too, someone is living inside a world of anger and bitterness. I have close friends this program has helped and the fact Bill Wilson and Dr. Bob founded AA is a miracle. With the nonstop attack machine running full bore against God in this country I'm not sure it ever could happen today.
I don't think that AA is the best place for the OP to find the help she needs.
I just hope she seeks help.
Like I said, this is NOT about ME! This is about the 22 million people out there with addictions who are being forced into 12 step programs (ever watch Intervention?) The treatment industry is a billion dollar industry.
People cycle in and out. Clearly, there has to be a better way. I do not believe in treating addiction with a 75 year old "cure" anymore than I would believe in subjecting someone with asthma, diabetes or cancer to a cure from 75 years ago (well, actually, most likely they'd be dead if subjected to something from 1935).
Furthermore, look at the strides that have been made with respect to mental illness. Ever hear of the snake pit and lobotomies? Thank God those are things of the past. Granted, psychiatry is still a hit or miss "science," but at least it's moving in the right direction. Addiction science is trying to, but when people keep sending people to XA it's going to take that much longer to really make progress in the field of addiction science.
Last edited by mistygrl092; 01-29-2011 at 01:37 PM..
Reason: add thought
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
