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Why is the rate of murder rate with a specific weapon more important to you than the total murder rate? If someone is killed with a knife, or a club, or an assailants bare hands, is that not just as much a problem as when someone is shot to death?
So .5 homicides per 100,000 are not committed with firearms! .5!
So all the knifes, clubs, cars, bare hands, ropes, swords, poisonings, pillows, death rays and every other form of murder STILL only totals about 12% of the firearm related homicides.
Hmmm firearm related homicides are more than 8 times that of all other homicides combined...I believe firearms do have quite an influence on the overall homicide rate.
Last edited by biggunsmallbrains; 12-21-2012 at 06:01 AM..
Face the truth;we have been nation of gun owners for our entire history. nthe 50;'s you could buy surplus guns from government supplies thru the mail and sent to your house. No paperwork other than the receiptsale. School didn't have police patrolling the halls and doors didn't have to be locked. College had maybe security staff that didnh't even carry guns.They didn't celebrate a football victory by buring and looting the local town either. Nor was assault and rape such a problem on college campuses. It has been gettig worse since the mid 60's with all violence. Now is that peace and love working out for you is the real question. Its a people problem ;not a gun problem as we have seen the same ole;same ole everytime. Create another gun law and its considered solved.Even Al Capone could compare to modern day Chicago in murder rate.
Face the truth;we have been antion of gun owners for our entire history. I the 50;'s you could buy surplus guns from governamnt supplies theru the mail aqns sent to your house. No paerwork other tha the lof sale. School didn;t have police protrayig the halls and doors didn't have to be locked. Colege had maybe security staff that was mostly older retirted police officer or civivlians;did not even carry guns. They did celebrate a football victory by burig and lotting the local town either. Nor was assult and rape such a problem o college campuses. It has been gettig wrose since the mid 60's with all violence> now is that peace and love workig out for you is the real question. Its a people problem ;not a gun problem as we have seen the same ole;same ole everytime. Creat another gun law and its considered solved.
More pandering and lies from politicians. If these Republicans really support mental health treatment, then why do they cut funds for social services?
On the other hand, the people who commit these shootings have mostly all come from solidly middle to upper income suburban backgrounds (the Connecticut shooter's mother received $289,000 alimoney in 2012 alone), so I would guess access to mental health treatment isn't a problem. That said, anyone who commits mass murder obviously has some sort of mental health problem, even if just a transient or emerging one.
Maybe a contributing factor in CT was having a mother who horded guns and food because she was convinced society was about to descend into chaos and she was ready to fire bullets into anyone who wasn't her friend. Yeah, how about that - a culture of fear and readiness, maybe even eagerness, to kill her perceived would-be enemies led to her own demise, along with dozens of innocents who were victims of her sick fantasies of civil warfare. Just another angry and ****ed up American nut who poisons the culture and we all suffer for it.
Interesting lists, shows that killing is not unique to U.S, which shouldn't surprise anyone. That said, the U.S. list has more familicides listed than Europe. And the European list has incidents that occured dating back to places like "The Holy Roman Empire" in the 16th century.
Africans seem to like killing by vehicle, and SE Asians by explosives. I still didn't see how America was any safer than other literate, advanced democracies. Although it is interesting how some consider the former Soviet Union, still terribly plagued by corruption and poverty and organized crime, is now considered a U.S. peer. Same for Brazil in a way, considering the slums and prevelance of organized crime.
Sort it by rate and find the U.S. We are pretty far down the list, way below the top countries, but should we really be comparing ourselves to El Salvador or Jamaica? What is it like to be an average citizen in any of the given countries on the list?
Interesting lists, shows that killing is not unique to U.S, which shouldn't surprise anyone. That said, the U.S. list has more familicides listed than Europe. And the European list has incidents that occured dating back to places like "The Holy Roman Empire" in the 16th century.
Africans seem to like killing by vehicle, and SE Asians by explosives. I still didn't see how America was any safer than other literate, advanced democracies. Although it is interesting how some consider the former Soviet Union, still terribly plagued by corruption and poverty and organized crime, is now considered a U.S. peer. Same for Brazil in a way, considering the slums and prevelance of organized crime.
Sort it by rate and find the U.S. We are pretty far down the list, way below the top countries, but should we really be comparing ourselves to El Salvador or Jamaica? What is it like to be an average citizen in any of the given countries on the list?
Good point. But maybe the problem is that so many on the right are xenophobes that any comparison to another country is like comparing the USA to maritians for them. Read the threads and you will see many have stated almost as much.
I really think that my post in #142 is pretty irrefutable. Not that someone wont try to refute it (facts aren't always peoples cup of tea).
So .5 homicides per 100,000 are not committed with firearms! .5!
So all the knifes, clubs, cars, bare hands, ropes, swords, poisonings, pillows, death rays and every other form of murder STILL only totals about 12% of the firearm related homicides.
Hmmm firearm related homicides are more than 8 times that of all other homicides combined...I believe firearms do have quite an influence on the overall homicide rate.
The point you seem to want to ignore is that, in total, the homicide rate here in the USA is not among the highest in the world. People in other countries, who cannot access firearms as readily as we can, simply use another weapon to kill people. Eliminating guns does not eliminate homicide. If it did, all those countries with a lower gun homicide rate, would have a lower total homicide rate. Let's focus on the real problem, people willing and even eager, to kill other people. Even if we choose to ban all guns now, people will find other weapons to use, and in a few years we will be having similar conversations about banning knives beyond a certain length, and the real problem will not have been addressed at all.
The point you seem to want to ignore is that, in total, the homicide rate here in the USA is not among the highest in the world. People in other countries, who cannot access firearms as readily as we can, simply use another weapon to kill people. Eliminating guns does not eliminate homicide. If it did, all those countries with a lower gun homicide rate, would have a lower total homicide rate. Let's focus on the real problem, people willing and even eager, to kill other people. Even if we choose to ban all guns now, people will find other weapons to use, and in a few years we will be having similar conversations about banning knives beyond a certain length, and the real problem will not have been addressed at all.
So if the real problem is society, not guns, why do we as the supposed best 1st World, Western Nation, have an astronomically higher violence rate than the rest of the Western World? Especially considering Conservatives love to claim how we're a "Christian" nation and the best in the world. Ironic that we're the most religious nation in the Western World, but also the most morally bankrupt and violent.
So if the real problem is society, not guns, why do we as the supposed best 1st World, Western Nation, have an astronomically higher violence rate than the rest of the Western World? Especially considering Conservatives love to claim how we're a "Christian" nation and the best in the world. Ironic that we're the most religious nation in the Western World, but also the most morally bankrupt and violent.
That's a question worth asking, and a conversation worth having. If only we could get past the silly thinking that making a particular tool illegal will somehow fix it.
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