Beginning to understand why inner-city African Americans are killing each other. (how much, dollar)
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But back to the argument, mostly every rap song has violence in it but it all really depends on the person who's saying it to be influential. Would you allow a homeless person to tell you "you can be anything you want to be in America" or a billionaire? It's that same concept in my eyes, you have one guy telling you to kill but he hasn't while there's another guy talking about killing and has done it.
I don't listen to Gucci; never have and never will but is he actually telling people to kill people or is he rapping about killing people?
I'm from Florida so Plies was big here for a hot second and he had the song Goons Out Lurking, which was basically a song about him & his boys riding around in their car with guns looking for somebody who talked too much about the wrong thing.
The media here tried to pin a series of drive-bys on that ONE song as if before that song no one had ever thought to shoot at someone while riding in their car. Which brings me right back to the other forms of entertainment argument. I hate the song from Plies but in my mind there is no difference between that song and the drive-by scene in Boyz in The Hood where they shot Ricky. Or the scene where Ice Cube shot the shooters.
In both instances, the people in the car drove around with guns and the intent to kill someone. The only difference is that you get the happy ending with music because the song ends. I guess people are okay with violence/drugs/sex as long as the ends are tied into a pretty bow.
I'm not trying to paint you into anything. The poster said music should have consequences because of the violence and so I asked what about the violence in other forms of entertainment, such as books and movies.
Violence is violence is violence. To say "oh well seeing Vivica Fox get stabbed in the kitchen in front of her child isn't as bad because earlier we saw that she shot Uma Thurman with a machine gun" is silly.
Well when I produce my crackhead movie and my WWII movie, I'll let you watch them both and you tell me which one is more of a positive influence.
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Originally Posted by nat_at772
That's like saying "rap is horrible because it glorifies selling and using drugs" but then thinking movies like Friday, How High or Harold & Kumar are hysterical.
Getting high and searching for White Castle is okay because of the context but 50 cent saying he's high all the time in a song is bad because we don't know why he's high. He's influencing the children!
Actually getting high and searching for white castle is just as stupid as getting high and doing anything else. I really don't see where you're getting any of this from.
The simple fact is that depending on the context violence can represent entirely different levels of depravity. I'll use the word depravity from here on out if it helps you to understand what I'm saying.
Violence is not always bad. Some people are in need of killing. Adolf Hitler for example. Based on the moral context of said violence, it can represent different levels of depravity and destructiveness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_at772
The media here tried to pin a series of drive-bys on that ONE song as if before that song no one had ever thought to shoot at someone while riding in their car. Which brings me right back to the other forms of entertainment argument. I hate the song from Plies but in my mind there is no difference between that song and the drive-by scene in Boyz in The Hood where they shot Ricky. Or the scene where Ice Cube shot the shooters.
Boyz N The Hood was a very good movie, and did nothing to glorify Ricky being shot in the back. It did nothing to even imply that this was somehow acceptable. It was a deep and meaningful commentary on the type of senseless violent ghetto idiocy that is portrayed in the exact opposite manner in whatever song you're talking about.
To even make an attempt to equate the two is patently absurd.
LOL, yes the gifted education, theater student is a "real gangster" LOL. I have no idea why anyone believes he was "real". I guess falling in with the wrong crowd can change anyones opinion of you.
I was always taught that a corner office was better than standing on a corner selling drugs, so wayne was never one of my favorite artist either.
And someone actually compared Gucci to Nas
I live just outside of Mobile,AL, but yes i can see your point of view. When i have heard Gucci, it was only the radio singles, never his mix tapes (but as i said, it could be different around the nation).
I cant say i know any gang members, or atleast no one i would consider a real gang member, just morons that get into fights with other groups of morons.
Same here, but living in Baltimore it was easy to fall into the 'standing on the corner' crowd, luckily my mother moved away from there in time. I was never a gang-member myself, and never really the person to initiate fights but I guess I'll label myself a moron for even getting into those situations where I'd be essentially forced to fight because of my 'friends'. I guess we just have to learn from our pass and just continue to progress, huh?
And I've never visited AL let alone Mobile, so I can't really speak on the music scene there. I'd imagine you guys would listen to Lil Boosie there more often than Gucci Mane, so that's understandable. How is black on black crime in Mobile? Are there many gangs or cliques?
And I've never visited AL let alone Mobile, so I can't really speak on the music scene there. I'd imagine you guys would listen to Lil Boosie there more often than Gucci Mane, so that's understandable.
Argh. Talk about violent garbage.
Then he becomes a folk hero and a martyr when he's up for murder.
First of Gucci sucks and so does most of the "hip hop" that comes out of the south. I grew up on Long Island during the golden era of hip hop. Wu-Tang, Nas, Mobb Deep, Biggie, 2Pac. To pin violence in the inner city on hip hop really is nonsensical especially when you consider that the violence in the inner-city in pretty much all cases was far worse before the rise of the so-called "gangsta rap".
Chicago gets talked about quite a bit for its spike in murders of late, but the amount of murders in Chicago in 2012 were barely more than half of what the city had 20 years ago,.
I can take that argument and run with it, look at Wiz Khalifa. When I was in high-school I'd smoke daily (yeah I know, its bad) but once Wiz Khalifa got on the scene the friends that I'd smoke with, wanted to smoke far more exotic herbs. We weren't even thinking about trying OG Kush until he said it was his favorite. Or what about this new found 'Molly' fad? I'm positive some well-known celebrity (possibly a rapper) has made it extremely popular to the inner-city youth. I've had friends who have used them for years who are genuinely pissed that its become popular..
Yeah that just means they were silly. I was a big 3 Six fan back in the day but I never once was inspired to drink cough syrup. I was a huge Lil Kim fan but I never tried to fit a Sprite can in my mouth. K
Somebody you don't even know says something is their favorite and now you have to try it? I'm sure it happens to youth all around the world everyday but that's where personal responsibility comes in. I'm not a fan of "Famous people shouldn't talk about drugs/sex/violence because I don't wanna be bothered trying to teach my kids to think for themselves when they can just do whatever they're favorite singer/rapper/actor/athlete does" logic.
I don't know maybe it's an age thing. If you graduated in 2010 then I'm a good 8 years older than you...maybe we weren't as influenced by musicians. No I take that back...I remember some of my classmates wearing their clothes backward during the Kris Kross era.
On that note I'm going to bed. Have to work at 9am. I shall come back tomorrow unless the thread gets a whole lot of responses that I won't feel like reading.
I don't listen to Gucci; never have and never will but is he actually telling people to kill people or is he rapping about killing people?
I'm from Florida so Plies was big here for a hot second and he had the song Goons Out Lurking, which was basically a song about him & his boys riding around in their car with guns looking for somebody who talked too much about the wrong thing.
The media here tried to pin a series of drive-bys on that ONE song as if before that song no one had ever thought to shoot at someone while riding in their car. Which brings me right back to the other forms of entertainment argument. I hate the song from Plies but in my mind there is no difference between that song and the drive-by scene in Boyz in The Hood where they shot Ricky. Or the scene where Ice Cube shot the shooters.
In both instances, the people in the car drove around with guns and the intent to kill someone. The only difference is that you get the happy ending with music because the song ends. I guess people are okay with violence/drugs/sex as long as the ends are tied into a pretty bow.
Of course he doesn't say kill people but instead he'll say something along the lines of he knows how a killer looks and that's the people he wants on his team and he doesn't respect people who don't do real things such as but not limited to killing, selling drugs, etc. I've defended people who sell drugs or rob people at times, solely because I know its a hard life out there and its survival of the fittest in some cases but to glorify it and make even more people in the inner-city to want lifestyles like that don't garnish my approval. But I can understand what you're saying, you can't pinpoint violence on one song, or artist in particular because the violence would've possibly occurred even if the song wasn't released, but it would be nice to hear more positivity in the mainstream especially from this who actually have a record. I like to hear rags-to-riches stories rather its musician's songs, or politicians such as Barack Obama who wasn't always the guy he is today. You know what I mean? Gucci Mane killed someone, cool, don't glorify it, make the situation more positive.
In fact, in one of Gucci Mane's newest songs, he said this about the murder he committed (which was in self-defense):
"I think the n-igga just mad cause I f-ucked his ex
And I'm a big dog, he got the lil' boy complex Go dig your partner up n-igga, bet he can't say s-hit"
Somebody you don't even know says something is their favorite and now you have to try it? I'm sure it happens to youth all around the world everyday but that's where personal responsibility comes in. I'm not a fan of "Famous people shouldn't talk about drugs/sex/violence because I don't wanna be bothered trying to teach my kids to think for themselves when they can just do whatever they're favorite singer/rapper/actor/athlete does" logic.
That's hardly the issue.
One can comment on a societal issue without it having anything to do with their own children. I don't have children. You can argue all day that the parents are responsible, and they are, but you can't completely disregard the effect of outside influences.
It's not a question of what's acceptable. It's a question of what's in our nature. Eating candy and greasy food isn't healthy but it's in our nature to stuff ourselves when we can. Having sex with every woman we can may not be 'acceptable' but it's in our nature to lust after every attractive woman. What you see in this music isn't new, it didn't come out of thin air. It's been with us since ever.
So I guess I'm saying is that recognize the music for what it is. Human nature. How you want to deal with natural instincts is another matter.
I agree with this.
The music is what it is...they're not doing anything but showing us who we are.
It doesn't mean you don't control those urges.
First of Gucci sucks and so does most of the "hip hop" that comes out of the south. I grew up on Long Island during the golden era of hip hop. Wu-Tang, Nas, Mobb Deep, Biggie, 2Pac. To pin violence in the inner city on hip hop really is nonsensical especially when you consider that the violence in the inner-city in pretty much all cases was far worse before the rise of the so-called "gangsta rap".
Chicago gets talked about quite a bit for its spike in murders of late, but the amount of murders in Chicago in 2012 were barely more than half of what the city had 20 years ago,.
Trust me, I know the difference between Hip-Hop and Rap; I'm only using them interchangeably because I'm not sure who does and doesn't know the difference. And I love the golden era of hip-hop, I've been listening to Wu-Tang a bit more lately. I don't want to make it seem as if rap is what's making murders surge throughout out our inner-cities, but I'd be willing to bet money that the youth (that's really what I'm talking about) are killing more than-ever or becoming victims. One new 'rapper' that really does glorify all things negative is, you said it, Chicago's your very own Chief Keef. He can barely speak (seriously), yet he can rap about killing people for absolutely no-reason and what makes it more scary is that I can believe he's killed a person or two for no reason except the wrong colors.
I remember fellow Chicago lyricist said that Chief Keef scares him, not necessarily him as a person but what he glorifies. It has a negative impact on Chicago neighborhoods. Here's what he said about him:
"I don't know too much about Rockie Fresh -- Chief Keef scares me. Not him specifically, but just the culture that he represents, specifically in Chicago," Lupe said when asked for his take on Chi-Town newcomers. "And I don't speak this about any other city because I'm not from there. But like my family lives in Chicago. So my nephews, my cousins, my friends, and my peoples they all in those hoods that he represents. When you drive through Chicago the hoodlums, I don't want to call Chief Keef a hoodlum, but 'the' hoodlums, the gangsters, and the ones you see killing each other -- the murder rate in Chicago is skyrocketing and you see who's doing it and perpetrating it, they all look like Chief Keef."-Lupe Fiasco
From the same interview, he's saying pretty much the same thing I'm saying:
"The kids that are doing the killings, and there kids-13 and 19 years old and you can replicate that in New Orleans, you can replicate that Oakland, all the kids look the same. They got dreads, Little Haiti, everybody looks like that. But to know that those are the kids doing the killings and then you take one of those kids and you celebrate them--in a politically correct way to say but when your in high schools speaking to students telling them how to survive in the summer and you turn on the radio and you hear that, your like 'ah nah'"-Lupe Fiasco
I believe there is some correlation (though it may be minor) between the music and increased violence. Of course drug and gangland disputes will cause increased murders, but a musician saying nothing aside from killing people and selling drugs, isn't helping the situation.
Last edited by BMORE; 01-16-2013 at 11:42 PM..
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