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One word: music. A lot of music of negativity is found in inner-cities, which promotes violence. For instance, although I have a extremely diverse taste in music, when I drive I typically listen to dumb hip-hop as opposed to intelligent hip-hop. I'm sure most of you haven't heard of Gucci Mane (fairly unintelligent rapper), he is only glorified within the black community in particular because of three things:
1.) He's a confirmed murderer.
2.) He's a confirmed drug dealer, his rank is possibly as high as a drug lord for all we know.
3.) He's crazy; probably mentally insane, seriously.
To the inner-city youth, that type of like style is what they may inspire to have. So to prove that they have it, they kill, sell drugs, etc in order to put fear in others. Of course other elements play a role in this as well, but music definitely plays a huge role in the increased murders among my fellow African-Americans.
For a race that only makes up about 13% of the US, most of the murders are coming from us. So what I'm saying is negativity, at least over the last few decades, has been glorified.
What do you guys think of what I'm saying? If any of you are racists (yes, there are a few racist people on C-D) please don't comment on this thread.
Homicide rates in the '70s were more than double what they are today, long before rap music hit the mainstream.
Rap was born in the South Bronx; the South Bronx was not born from rap music.
Say Gucci Mane is their idol and they listen to everything he says, he may have that particular person ready to kill. That's all I'm saying.
I agree with you (as a white guy) I just take issue with the idea that "One word: music" is anything even close to a comprehensive analysis of such a situation.
The effects of "role models" are not as simple as that. We're talking a large convergence of circumstances here. Otherwise stable people do not crack so easily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMOREBOY
But if you want to call a African-American a racist then it's fine, I just won't criticize my community anymore.
Dude. What the hell is that? Speak your mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
The only people that know why some blacks do what they do are the perps themselves. If you want real answers, ask them.
In my mind that would be a prime example of "oversimplifying complex issues".
No one person in this world can sit down and write an essay that puts the debate to rest. Any individual "perp" most likely lacks the psychological ability to analyze his own actions in any thorough manner.
Again, complex convergence of circumstances and you can't discount the effect of a constant bombardment with certain messages. Even if it may be somewhat negligible.
Maybe it wasn't clear enough in original my post that I'm African-American myself. Honestly, I haven't seen a inner-city African-American community before that's doing well, of course I've seen prosperous black neighborhoods in suburbs (ie parts of Prince George County, MD has prosperous areas that are predominantly African-American). I mean of course dire situations surround these youth as well, but the music plays a role in the situation as well. It's the musician and the music that can have people ready to kill. If one already sees their older-brother selling cocaine, they may want to slang it as well. But when music comes in the picture, it can influence something greater than just selling cocaine.
Say Gucci Mane is their idol and they listen to everything he says, he may have that particular person ready to kill. That's all I'm saying. But if you want to call a African-American a racist then it's fine, I just won't criticize my community anymore.
Never said that you're a racist. I said that you're wrong.
Saying that Gucci Mane is popular in the '"inner city" isn't saying anything except to say that he's popular. So what? And?
And his popularity is over represented among certain demographics. Hundred bucks says that there's a higher correlation between Gucci Mane and his genre and crime than most other artists and genres. That's a fact.
And don't say correlation doesn't prove causation, because I never said it did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
If Gucci had never been born, everything would still be the same. That void could easily be filled by ignorant ass movies or whatever. Gucci and the likes of him are a tick on an elephants ass in the grand scheme.
Okay? Nobody here has made any argument even remotely resembling one specifically focused on one musician. Even the OP never said anything of the sort.
The issue is the effects of cultural influences such as music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha
I think it's a symptom of greater problems also. A lot of things are destroying our culture today, music and videos that glorify criminals, denigrate women, disrespect law enforcement, promote drug use, promote single mothers and baby momma making ass****, promote violence. And then along come the political/race hustlers like Jessie Jackson who tell everyone that nothing is your fault, and anything that is bad in your life is someone elses fault because they are repressing you, you were born a victim, will always be a victim, and there is nothing you can do to change your life for the better.
Same exact debate. Although I'd put the everyday cultural influences that encourage more passive behavior at a higher level than music that encourages crack dealing. One is a larger step than the other and requires more of an underlying cause disconnected from the existence of the influence itself.
I agree with you (as a white guy) I just take issue with the idea that "One word: music" is anything even close to a comprehensive analysis of such a situation.
The effects of "role models" are not as simple as that. We're talking a large convergence of circumstances here. Otherwise stable people do not crack so easily.
Dude. What the hell is that? Speak your mind.
In my mind that would be a prime example of "oversimplifying complex issues".
No one person in this world can sit down and write an essay that puts the debate to rest. Any individual "perp" most likely lacks the psychological ability to analyze his own actions in any thorough manner.
Again, complex convergence of circumstances and you can't discount the effect of a constant bombardment with certain messages. Even if it may be somewhat negligible.
I give perps more credit than you. I think almost to a man that they could tell you far more than you could ever dream that they could.
Never said that you're a racist. I said that you're wrong.
Maybe you specifically didn't say that, but you're implying that I have no clue about the African-American community. How violent are people that are avid listeners of Mos Def in comparison to Gucci Mane's? Maybe my thoughts are in the wrong place, maybe his music just fits the inner-youth demographic better for they can relate more, but I'm not retracting my statement that he can heighten a situation.
And his popularity is over represented among certain demographics. Hundred bucks says that there's a higher correlation between Gucci Mane and his genre and crime than most other artists and genres. That's a fact.
And don't say correlation doesn't prove causation, because I never said it did.
Okay? Nobody here has made any argument even remotely resembling one specifically focused on one musician. Even the OP never said anything of the sort.
The issue is the effects of cultural influences such as music.
Same exact debate. Although I'd put the everyday cultural influences that encourage more passive behavior at a higher level than music that encourages crack dealing. One is a larger step than the other and requires more of an underlying cause disconnected from the existence of the influence itself.
How could Gucci Mane be "overrepresented" In that group?
Also, how can there be any correlation between Gucci and crime PERIOD? How can one measure that?
I give perps more credit than you. I think almost to a man that they could tell you far more than you could ever dream that they could.
I don't.
Violent criminals are obviously illogical enough to do engage in high risk activities that get them locked up in the first place. If they were capable of critical analysis as it pertained to their own actions they would in many cases not wind up in such situations.
I'll take their opinions into account, but you implied that we should just ask them and lay it to rest, as if they had all the answers. They don't. They have absolutely no psychological or sociological education or experience and therefore are not equipped for any type of truly comprehensive analysis on the level of trained professionals of themselves, much less society in general. That's absurd.
This is even more true when you look at the more subtle forms of influence.
Show me a damaged person and chances are I'll show you someone who is angry and has no idea why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
How could Gucci Mane be "overrepresented" In that group?
Listeners. I thought that much was obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Also, how can there be any correlation between Gucci and crime PERIOD? How can one measure that?
Hypothetically it could be. Not that I have a team of surveyors. But I'll bet you that people who listen to modern rap crap are generally more violent than people who listen to classical. We all know it.
Music may have a negative effect. But I personally think its more to do with a lack of a father in a majority of black homes. Face it......mama can't do it all. Black children simply have no positive compass in which to navigate with. It's a revolving door. Absent black men are to blame because no one forced any of them to keep the revolving door spinning. It was a choice they made on their own in adulthood, therefore it's up to them to do the right thing by not perpetuating the situation.
I don't think it's Gucci Mane...I think it's 2 Chains.
Personally when I get ready to go shoot other black people I get high and listen to In A Gadda Da Vida.
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