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There isn't always moral context in movies. Look at Kill Bill. Unless the moral was "you wronged me so now I am justified in killing you". What about The Whole 9 Yards. Bruce Willis was a hitman who moved to the burbs and several people died in that movie...even at the end Bruce Willis shot Michael Clarke Duncan; was the violence somehow less violent because it was a funny movie? There isn't always moral context in books. I've read several books where the killer got away and lived happily ever after.
I'm not denying that there is violence in rap music but I am not for censorship. I don't recall people wanting to censor the Dixie Chicks when they were singing about poisoning a man, wrapping him in a tarp, putting him in the trunk and then throwing him in the lake.
I must have edited out the word most, but I know I had it in there at first.
In many movies and especially books, there is a moral context. And in almost all, even without a moral context, they still don't reach the level of glorification of violence simply for the sake of violence.
I haven't seen those two movies, but even in a movie like Kill Bill, as I understand there is some type of story behind the violence. Even on a subject like revenge while hardly a heartwarming story about an adorable kitten does not reach the level of glorification of senseless violence for no purpose whatsoever.
It's a sliding scale and the kind of garbage I'm referring to is the worst of the worst.
I never said I was for censorship.
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Violence is violence. The form it comes in really shouldn't make a difference if you're against it.
I must have edited out the word most, but I know I had it in there at first.
In many movies and especially books, there is a moral context. And in almost all, even without a moral context, they still don't reach the level of glorification of violence simply for the sake of violence.
I haven't seen those two movies, but even in a movie like Kill Bill, as I understand there is some type of story behind the violence. Even on a subject like revenge while hardly a heartwarming story about an adorable kitten does not reach the level of glorification of senseless violence for no purpose whatsoever.
It's a sliding scale and the kind of garbage I'm referring to is the worst of the worst.
I never said I was for censorship.
Form doesn't matter. Context does.
The poster I responded too said there should be consequences for music, which is basically censorship. As far as context, I understand what you're saying but I disagree. Violence in violence; period. It's hard to provide a person's background and what motivates them to be violent in a song that about 4 minutes long; I've only heard a few songs that can paint a full picture. Stan by Eminem comes to mind first.
As far as the story behind Kill Bill, it was revenge. They tried to kill her, so she went back and killed all of them. The fact that it had a back story doesn't make it any less violent.
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Originally Posted by Michigantown
Music has nothing to do with black youth joining gangs and selling drugs for money.
People blaming the problems within the black urban communities today on rap music is like blaming teenage pregnancy on MTV. It's lazy, irresponsible and does nothing to solve the problem but instead makes the music in question seem more appealing. Anybody remember how 2 Live Crew skyrocketed once their music became controversial?
from the bold, I guess you dont realize you can be both, my parents werent rich and we technically lived below the poverty line, but i worked my ***** off in high school to get good grades, i took college prep classes, got involved with clubs and earned a college scholarship. moving on from that.
The way you phrased that response makes me think you are basing your entire argument on a guess of what you think inner city kids listen to instead of knowing. knowing fully what everyone listens to is impossible, but your quote says you arent from the inner city(or atleast the people you know arent from there). Im telling you i do know people from the inner city, im saying i have heard them talk about music, they still think wayne is a good rapper, they still play his crap on repeat more then gucci, they still play Jeezy more than him. in all honestly, i havent heard a Gucci Mane song on my local station or from someones care in atleast 6 months.
We sound as if we have similar lives, aside from the scholarship. I'm racking up massive student debt attending this school, but hopefully its all worth it. I guess because DC has no public universities, and I really wanted to stay close to where I can intern with local politicians, I had to stay here. Hopefully its pays off though.
But I graduated from high-school in 2010, so I'm still fairly hip to what everyone listens to. I didn't hang with one way race or economic group more than the other, meaning I was fairly diverse; I hung with Caucasians of high-incomes, and they didn't listen to Gucci Mane but instead Lil Wayne. I had black friends as well of high-incomes and low-incomes, the low income didn't really listen to Lil Wayne but instead Gucci Mane, Lil Boosie, Slim Dunkin', Etc, while the upper-income seemed to listen to Drake, Lil Wayne, and sometimes Gucci Mane but only his radio-singles not mixtapes. I'm from Baltimore, lived there most of my life so I'm fairly knowledgeable about the inner-city. I've posted stories here on several occasions about visiting the projects and getting into fights, I know that lifestyle and it gets old after a while or in my case, once one of my friends were killed. I knew real gang-members and they didn't respect Lil Wayne nearly as much as Gucci Mane. Jeezy is a different story, people still listen to him and he's a bit more relevant in comparison to Gucci Mane nonetheless he still doesn't get much respect as Gucci Mane. But all this is from my experience in Baltimore, and NC.
I'm not sure where you live, so maybe its different where you are but in NC what I said was true. And in high-school most of the people that seemed to do terrible in school, we're those who believed Gucci Mane was better than Nas. Just saying. Any time I did hang around the projects, they weren't listening to Lil Wayne; maybe the girls were but the dudes weren't.
The poster I responded too said there should be consequences for music, which is basically censorship. As far as context, I understand what you're saying but I disagree. Violence in violence; period. It's hard to provide a person's background and what motivates them to be violent in a song that about 4 minutes long; I've only heard a few songs that can paint a full picture. Stan by Eminem comes to mind first.
And that's why Stan by Eminem is a far cry from most of the garbage you hear from people like Wayne or Gucci.
Stan by Eminem does provide context. And this is not some type of coincidence or accident that is somehow left out of other songs because of time constraints. It is deliberate. How can you even compare that?
None of Eminem's music, at least of what I have heard, glorifies senseless violence without any moral context.
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Originally Posted by nat_at772
As far as the story behind Kill Bill, it was revenge. They tried to kill her, so she went back and killed all of them. The fact that it had a back story doesn't make it any less violent.
I didn't say it made it less violent. I said it wasn't as bad due to context. Were she a drug dealer shooting people in order to steal their drugs, that would be worse. Were she avenging the death of her poodle, that would be better.
You're trying to paint me into a corner here. I never said violence was always bad. A movie about fighting Nazis in WWII would be more appropriate and less of a negative influence than a movie glorifying the adventures of a crackhead who shoots school children in order to steal their lunch money so he can buy crack.
Extreme examples? Yes. But tone that crackhead movie down ever so slightly and you probably get something resembling Gucci Mane's last CD.
This reminds of a thread I saw asking something along the lines of "Why do liberals glorify John Lennon" or something along those lines, my post pretty much said he was human so he made mistakes. So, I and I'm sure SamBarrow agrees that it's only human nature to make mistakes. What we're saying is, it shouldn't be glorified. If a new genre of music came along and it glorified eating terrible foods, Id suspect more people would eat bad if it didn't speak on consequences of the unhealthy foods although Americans have been eating unhealthy for decades now. Pretty much what I'm saying is, famous people are influential and can deem what's acceptable and not acceptable, they have that power. Why use that power for the negatives? You can talk about society, drugs, woman, etc if you'd like but don't glorify it.
Anyone who works in the mainstream entertainment industry will tell you that the images, movies and song lyrics are created and distributed to dumb down the masses. This sort of "entertainment" works extremely well with the uninformed and those generally who do not have the ability, fortitude or inclination to think for themselves.
They follow the latest trends set forth by puppet "celebs", and then wonder why they are unable to advance. Ask yourself, who has the ability to green light these people and fund their projects, and then you will understand the nature of the problem. The best thing to do, is the complete opposite of what is broadcasted to the masses. When they encourage violence, crime, drug use, sexual promiscuity, materialism, ignorance and unhealthy eating etc, engage in the opposite forms of these behaviors and tune their puppets out. Doing so, will allow you to live a very fulfilled life.
The masses do not have the ability to comprehend that man was created in God's image. The devil works overtime to ensure that you never rise to your true potential, because he knows what's in store for him, and he wants the same ill fate for everyone else. The people who are at the top of the pyramid system have made their pacts and they understand firmly where they are headed. Again, the goal is to have everyone else follow their ill begotten path and end up cursed as well.
The industry is filled with satanists. This explains why their music is so polluted with violence, sex and drugs. These miscreants (the big boys behind the scenes at NBC Universal, Sony, etc) hold the purse strings and get to decide which images are broadcasted and promoted to us.
Artists with positive messages and clean lyrics will never receive record deals or any airtime, because the goal is not to promote unity. The goal is mass destruction of your mind, body and soul.
Anyone who works in the mainstream entertainment industry will tell you that the images, movies and song lyrics are created and distributed to dumb down the masses. This sort of "entertainment" works extremely well with the uninformed and those generally who do not have the ability, fortitude or inclination to think for themselves.
This is actually a relevant point and does support the OP's theory.
I have no doubt that much of this "art" is targeted directly to the people who are the easiest to sell to which probably easily correlates to those who are the most susceptible to outside influence.
In many movies and especially books, there is a moral context. And in almost all, even without a moral context, they still don't reach the level of glorification of violence simply for the sake of violence.
There is a context throughout hip hop-live by the honor code and don't let anyone disrespect you. Isn't that good enough?
And that's why Stan by Eminem is a far cry from most of the garbage you hear from people like Wayne or Gucci.
Stan by Eminem does provide context. And this is not some type of coincidence or accident that is somehow left out of other songs because of time constraints. It is deliberate. How can you even compare that?
None of Eminem's music, at least of what I have heard, glorifies senseless violence without any moral context.
I didn't say it made it less violent. I said it wasn't as bad due to context. Were she a drug dealer shooting people in order to steal their drugs, that would be worse. Were she avenging the death of her poodle, that would be better.
You're trying to paint me into a corner here. I never said violence was always bad. A movie about fighting Nazis in WWII would be more appropriate and less of a negative influence than a movie glorifying the adventures of a crackhead who shoots school children in order to steal their lunch money so he can buy crack.
Extreme examples? Yes. But tone that crackhead movie down ever so slightly and you probably get something resembling Gucci Mane's last CD.
Exactly, I don't think they're understanding what we're both saying. I understand violence, I play Call of Duty, I listen to a variety violent of music, watch violent movies, etc, that's only normal in our society I guess, but once the music gets to the point where the violence seems spontaneous then it doesn't need to be created. I'm not for censorship, hell I'm partly a musician myself so I'm def against that but the lack of substance can make one believe that violence should happen for no reason. Kim by Eminem is one of the most violent songs I ever heard, but at the same time its understandable, it has a story to it and him killing Kim is understood. If Eminem didn't provide a plot to killing her, but instead just talks about burying her, for what the listener may believe is for nothing, then it falls under the category of lacking substance and influencing violence.
I'd rather hear someone say they killed their girlfriend because she cheated, rather than saying you kill your girlfriend for nothing. That isn't what the youth needs to hear.
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