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I don't think the music has that much to do with the killings. The homicide rate in the inner city was even higher in the 70's before rap. It was higher in the 80's too before rap turned violent. Rap music glorifying violence didn't really get popular until the late 80's and early 90's. Actually if you think about it the more violent rap lyrics have gotten over time the more homicides have decreased. Now I don't in anyway think violent rap lyrics means less homicides but it shows theres really no correlation. Rap sucks now-a-days anyways. For the most part the beats are too simple and computerized and the lyrics are never insightful. Hip Hop peaked about 93 - 95 and it's been on a steady decline ever since.
I believe the homicide problem is more to do with fatherless children and limited economic opportunities. A young boy in the ghetto who grows up without a father is looking for a male role model. The older men that he sees everyday are the guys on the corner so they often become that role model. He gets a little older, realizes his opportunities are limited, needs some quick money, so he goes and joins them with no father to tell him not to.
I don't think the music has that much to do with the killings. The homicide rate in the inner city was even higher in the 70's before rap. It was higher in the 80's too before rap turned violent. Rap music glorifying violence didn't really get popular until the late 80's and early 90's. Actually if you think about it the more violent rap lyrics have gotten over time the more homicides have decreased. Now I don't in anyway think violent rap lyrics means less homicides but it shows theres really no correlation. Rap sucks now-a-days anyways. For the most part the beats are too simple and computerized and the lyrics are never insightful. Hip Hop peaked about 93 - 95 and it's been on a steady decline ever since.
I believe the homicide problem is more to do with fatherless children and limited economic opportunities. A young boy in the ghetto who grows up without a father is looking for a male role model. The older men that he sees everyday are the guys on the corner so they often become that role model. He gets a little older, realizes his opportunities are limited, needs some quick money, so he goes and joins them with no father to tell him not to.
I can agree with the second paragraph of this post for I don't know the murder rates of the 70's, 80's, etc. For the most part the ghetto becomes their parents, I remember Tupac said he looked up to the drug dealers in his community but he also said that people such as Ice-T (maybe Ice Cube) play the father role in fatherless homes. The youth really listen to them, musicians have a tremendous influence on the youth but its seeming like they're using their powers/influence for the bad. At the least, I want consequences put into music. I don't want anyone who doesn't have a role-model aside from a drug dealer, and a musician to listen to them and don't know if they kill someone they can end up in prison.
At the least, I want consequences put into music. I don't want anyone who doesn't have a role-model aside from a drug dealer, and a musician to listen to them and don't know if they kill someone they can end up in prison.
What about movies? Is it okay for violence to be in movies like Scarface, Training Day, State Property but not okay in music? What about books? We wouldn't want anyone to read a violent book? What about these video games? We should really stop games like Call of Duty because well you know they use guns to shoot people.
There's violence in every form of entertainment but people always harp on music because for some reason they think people are too stupid to realize that the music is fiction. I believe that Lil Wayne is running into people's houses and shooting them machine guns the same way I believe that Tina Turner left her job to ride on a river boat.
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Originally Posted by SamBarrow
And I am a 24 year old male in the DC area and I'm telling you that he was when I was your age. And my experience wasn't in college. I really haven't left the house since then so I don't know now.
But it's really not relevant as the point remains. You wouldn't argue the popularity of someone like Wayne, and he's nearly as bad as far as his music goes.
4 years ago, he barely had a career. He was doing club shows around Atlanta and through out the south, his album was a flop. He even got dropped from his label.
Wayne last album sold 1 million copies in one week, so yes, Wayne is popular, but the OP said Gucci Mane, who's last album may have sold 100,000 overall since its release.
What about movies? Is it okay for violence to be in movies like Scarface, Training Day, State Property but not okay in music? What about books? We wouldn't want anyone to read a violent book? What about these video games? We should really stop games like Call of Duty because well you know they use guns to shoot people.
The vast majority of movies/books present violence within some type of moral context and/or merely as part of a larger story, the ultimate message of which is not to sell crack and shoot people. I am racking my brain and I can't think of any movie or book that outright glorifies violence in the way that some of this music does. There's no comparison.
Even in the movies that do not present much of a moral context, they conclude with a rather bloody end to the glory in which your main character is knocked off in some way or another. All three of the movies you mentioned in fact.
For certain video games, your point is in line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
4 years ago, he barely had a career. He was doing club shows around Atlanta and through out the south, his album was a flop. He even got dropped from his label.
Wayne last album sold 1 million copies in one week, so yes, Wayne is popular, but the OP said Gucci Mane, who's last album may have sold 100,000 overall since its release.
Well in some miraculously way, everyone up here knew who he was and a large number of people listened to his stuff.
Gucci Mane is still a popular artist. Even at a few hundred thousand sales, he has a substantial fan base. And like I said, it doesn't matter.
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Originally Posted by BMOREBOY
So who is the most popular artist among the inner-city youth? Not college students. At my school, African-Americans aren't really from low-income areas so they typically listen to Lil Wayne, A$AP Rocky, or pretty much any extremely popular artist. When it comes to low-income, inner-city areas they don't listen to Lil Wane because he doesn't have enough street cred, Gucci Mane has killed someone, sold drugs, etc and with that type of record he can lead many to believe that they can do what he has done without major consequences. That's just from the musician side of things, his music then glorifies killing people, selling drugs, and etc. So although a minority may listen to his music, you cannot deny that he can be affective in causing more violence.
I just drove to the store a few minutes ago, here's a few lyrics that I heard from him:
"Watch is to die for, Chain is to kill for,
Money, *****, kush, pills is all a ***** live for"
Those lyrics don't show that there's more to life than killing, drugs, and women. If I was ignorant and didn't know more was out there, listening to Gucci Mane probably would make me want to become a gangster but because I know more is out there, his lyrics don't have a major affect on me aside from having occasional road-rage.
I guess I just want more responsibility from artist, that's all. They are influential and can help low-income areas progress if they actually put a thought into a song.
from the bold, I guess you dont realize you can be both, my parents werent rich and we technically lived below the poverty line, but i worked my ***** off in high school to get good grades, i took college prep classes, got involved with clubs and earned a college scholarship. moving on from that.
The way you phrased that response makes me think you are basing your entire argument on a guess of what you think inner city kids listen to instead of knowing. knowing fully what everyone listens to is impossible, but your quote says you arent from the inner city(or atleast the people you know arent from there). Im telling you i do know people from the inner city, im saying i have heard them talk about music, they still think wayne is a good rapper, they still play his crap on repeat more then gucci, they still play Jeezy more than him. in all honestly, i havent heard a Gucci Mane song on my local station or from someones care in atleast 6 months.
The vast majority of movies/books present violence within some type of moral context and/or merely as part of a larger story, the ultimate message of which is not to sell crack and shoot people. I am racking my brain and I can't think of any movie or book that outright glorifies violence in the way that some of this music does. There's no comparison.
Even in the movies that do not present much of a moral context, they conclude with a rather bloody end to the glory in which your main character is knocked off in some way or another. All three of the movies you mentioned in fact.
For certain video games, your point is in line.
There isn't always moral context in movies. Look at Kill Bill. Unless the moral was "you wronged me so now I am justified in killing you". What about The Whole 9 Yards. Bruce Willis was a hitman who moved to the burbs and several people died in that movie...even at the end Bruce Willis shot Michael Clarke Duncan; was the violence somehow less violent because it was a funny movie? There isn't always moral context in books. I've read several books where the killer got away and lived happily ever after.
I'm not denying that there is violence in rap music but I am not for censorship. I don't recall people wanting to censor the Dixie Chicks when they were singing about poisoning a man, wrapping him in a tarp, putting him in the trunk and then throwing him in the lake.
Violence is violence. The form it comes in really shouldn't make a difference if you're against it.
This reminds of a thread I saw asking something along the lines of "Why do liberals glorify John Lennon" or something along those lines, my post pretty much said he was human so he made mistakes. So, I and I'm sure SamBarrow agrees that it's only human nature to make mistakes. What we're saying is, it shouldn't be glorified. If a new genre of music came along and it glorified eating terrible foods, Id suspect more people would eat bad if it didn't speak on consequences of the unhealthy foods although Americans have been eating unhealthy for decades now. Pretty much what I'm saying is, famous people are influential and can deem what's acceptable and not acceptable, they have that power. Why use that power for the negatives? You can talk about society, drugs, woman, etc if you'd like but don't glorify it.
The point is this kind of honor code is glorified across cultures and in many different musical genres. Besides Muslim nasheeds, I just thought of another popular and folksy music: Corridos. While they can be about anything, they're often about the glory of being a bandit, selling drugs, women, and shoot outs. If you listen to a corrido, it couldn't be more different in sound than American hip-hop (it's basically Mexican folk country music) but the content is basically the same. Every major city in Mexico has their own corrido, and people often sing along whether they're actually living that lifestyle or not.
So to the meat of your post: Are you proposing a recommendation or requirement? What are you trying to accomplish?
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