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The link I posted was a thread about an article/review of 'the Judge' that was in SWAT mag. I read the original article in the mag, but I don't think it's available on line. But the thread I linked to has a podcast in post #1 where the author talks about the article.
Here's a quote from the article that was reprinted in the thread:
As I recall he had some other complaints too. He said the double action trigger pull was very heavy due to the need for a heavy cylinder.
I will look at the American Rifleman piece--thanks for the link
Please don't take my first response to you as argumentative. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, which I respect.
i believe your article was when the gun first came out and the proper shells weren't used.
Improvements in the contents of the shell have greatly improver the overall performance.
Have you seen the combo (410 pellets WITH a .45 cal. slug) shell? I saw a video, prety impressive. Becausae of the rifled barrel the pellets don't spray very much and packs a hell of a wallop.
For home defense, which is usually short range, 10 yards or less, I like it. It packs a wallop and is easier to maneuver then a full length shotgun.
This is a question. Don't get your panties in a wad if i don't use terminology you like.
Seems to me that shouldn't i be very concerned as in scared ****less should some one other than me be doing a home defense with a rifle?Years ago as like in the early 70's a friend had a AR-15 that was .223 caliber. He shot it right through a Bridge beam that was very thick from an old torn down bridge.
I am thinking that when someone starts shooting a rifle in housing or apartment areas then a lot of holes can be punched through walls( of people not involved other than living next door). Am i right?
I dont use a AR-15 type firearm, but I do use a HK-91 type firearm in 7.62x51. I have no fear of the bullet going through any of my walls at all. you could be 5 feet on the other side of my walls and not get hit by the bullet if I fired inside my home. I also live on my own acreage and the nearest neighbor is about 800 meters away.
ps. before some get all uptight, my home is not like the normal surburban home with sheetrock and siding.
I dont use a AR-15 type firearm, but I do use a HK-91 type firearm in 7.62x51. I have no fear of the bullet going through any of my walls at all. you could be 5 feet on the other side of my walls and not get hit by the bullet if I fired inside my home. I also live on my own acreage and the nearest neighbor is about 800 meters away.
ps. before some get all uptight, my home is not like the normal surburban home with sheetrock and siding.
This is a question. Don't get your panties in a wad if i don't use terminology you like.
Seems to me that shouldn't i be very concerned as in scared ****less should some one other than me be doing a home defense with a rifle?Years ago as like in the early 70's a friend had a AR-15 that was .223 caliber. He shot it right through a Bridge beam that was very thick from an old torn down bridge.
I am thinking that when someone starts shooting a rifle in housing or apartment areas then a lot of holes can be punched through walls( of people not involved other than living next door). Am i right?
Shooting a .223 through a bridge beam? Bull cr*p! One can use an armor piercing .223 and not shoot through a bridge beam. A .308 can pierce 1/2 thick armor, as well as a 8mm mauser. A .223, even with an armor piercing round, will do nothing.
What is the best home defense weapon? A combat 12 gauge shotgun with a combat round (.50 cal ball and 6 pieces of double "0" buck shot). We have weapons with 120 round drums and slide fire stocks that turn them into full auto. What do we have for home defense? 12g shotgun with five shot magazine and combat rounds.
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Franchi Spas-12 with the first 2 rounds double 00 buck and the rest Brenneke rifled slugs one hangs on the back of 2 of my closet doors inside a bifold door...very ez the grab and well hidden...although we've had a few AR'S over time,they were not my style and figure the Spas is worse news for a home invader at gunfight range anyway.
Shooting a .223 through a bridge beam? Bull cr*p! One can use an armor piercing .223 and not shoot through a bridge beam. A .308 can pierce 1/2 thick armor, as well as a 8mm mauser. A .223, even with an armor piercing round, will do nothing.
What is the best home defense weapon? A combat 12 gauge shotgun with a combat round (.50 cal ball and 6 pieces of double "0" buck shot). We have weapons with 120 round drums and slide fire stocks that turn them into full auto. What do we have for home defense? 12g shotgun with five shot magazine and combat rounds.
Such as the Akdal MKA 1919 AR-15 Style 12-Guage Shotun:
1. Pump action shotgun makes the worst home defense gun. Anybody who tells you otherwise have never been through a dynamic force on force scenario. It's slow to reload, limited on ammo, difficult to follow up, difficult to train on target, heavy and long to maneuver, terrible recoil. It's not for untrained hands and definitely a major turn off for women and kids. You can never shoot as fast as semi-auto.
2. Handgun, limited rounds, extremely difficult to shoot well. Deep and deep penetration, worse than 5.56.
3. There is a reason why most policemen pick AR15 as their main weapon. When SWAT team enters a house, you see AR15s in everybody's hands. Easy to shoot, 30 rounds as standard magazine, low recoil, fast reload, etc. If using correct ammo, limited penetration.
Yes, AR15 makes an excellent good home defense gun against multiple intruders but it has one drawback: it's too long. So most people choose a pistol as their choice.
I had truly thought this issue was put to rest years ago, like 20. However, I guess Urban Legend, Myths, and unfortunately, down right lies still permeate. This issue really isn't a pro or anti gun control issue. MOST people on this thread have it completely wrong, no matter what side of the fence they are on.
Oh my god. The 5.56 round will over penetrate. Go through walls and kill innocent bystanders. Eugene Stoner designed the AR platform under a 20" barrel, pushing a 55 grain, full metal jacket, round out of the barrel at approximately 3200 feet per second (FPS). A lightweight round, traveling at such a high velocity, when it strikes ANYTHING solid, even semi solid (human tissue, sheet rock, etc) the round has a tendency to fragment, the energy is dissipated, and the round stops. The round DOES NOT overpenetrate as some would believe and, unfortunately, have said on this thread. Thus furthering a lie, misconception, and ignorance of the general population.
A handgun or shotgun for that matter, have the exact opposite effect. My .40 cal Sig has a velocity of approximately 1100 FPS; depending upon the ammunition. Because it is shooting a larger and SLOWER round, it DOES over penetrate, going through sheet rock, walls, etc. Shotguns have the same effect (although shotguns ARE a great home defense weapon; so is a handgun. In fact, the best home defense weapon is the one you have in your hand, when you need it.).
Terminal ballistics of firearms is truly a science. There are very few actual "experts" on it. I suggest everyone who wants some true information on this subject, spend some time researching the internet. There is some very good information there.
I worked in home security and have spent a ton of hours with guns in the lab, field, and in the books.
There are way too many variables in choosing a gun for home protection to just say gun A is better than gun B.
The state you live in, your hand size, willingness to clean your weapon, your strength, how humid it is in your house, and so many other factors all play a role in your choice.
Bottom line is...if you aren't comfortable with your weapon and able to use it properly when it's time to use it then you really aren't protecting yourself to the best of your ability.
Do research, go to the range and actually shoot guns to see how it feels!!! You'd be shocked to know how many people own guns they don't feel comfortable wiith. Ask local law enforcement what they would suggest.
Gun choice for home protection really is an extremely personalized decision.
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