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I was responding to a charge of "who started it"? Zimmerman started it. Zimmerman initiated the action that put the chain of events into effect. Zimmerman. Zimmerman.
No one knows who started it. Everything each party did was legal up to the point of who initiated the physical contact. There is no proof who did this, the burden is on the state to prove Zimmerman did it.
West...Stumbled over his own theory....Compiling all the "circumstantial evidence"...He knows all of it adds up to George being guilty. If under the circumstances...would a reasonable person do the same thing....whether it was reasonable for George to respond w/ deadly force.
Zimmerman precipitated his "justification" for deadly force.
I hope that when he's in prison, he can explain to the other inmates that he is a convicted creep.
Yet, she, as a judge, must not devolve into the emotional argument. Yes, we should and do hold our judges to a higher standard one of which is to not get emotional, whether that be anger or otherwise. She simply needed to remind West of the rules of conduct in the court. It was not appropriate for her to speak of appeal, especially since Zimmerman has not been convicted of anything.
The jury is not in the room. They have a lot more room for arguing...I find nothing wrong with what she said or did. West was arguing, repeatedly.
Yes. Trayvon was a teen....a minor...many of you have labeled him a thug, and many names....minor has not been included in the editorializing....
George identified Trayvon as a teen on his phone call.
What George did was terrorize and menace a teen, simply because he wanted to. He culminated that with shooting Trayvon, a minor, dead. Deal with it.
The judge will decide.
Justifiable deadly force...Defense doesn't believe it was justifiable deadly force..... UTOH
Trayvon was 17. And so what?
I look back at myself and some of the guys from my neighborhood at 15, 16, and 17 and although we weren't legally adults; we weren't exactly small children. Many of us drove. Most of us had already had sex. Nearly all of us had done drugs. We would regularly get into into fistfights with each other and strangers. And some of the guys I knew were criminals and some of them have since ended up in prison as adults.
Statistically speaking, males aged 16-24 are the most violent demographic. You have a mixture of inexperience, testosterone, and a chorus of other guys in your age group saying, "Are you going to let him get away with that?" anytime words are exchanged.
I doubt Zimmerman terrorized and menaced Trayvon. From his own friend's account of their conversation before the confrontation which lead to the shooting; when she was asked why Travyon didn't go home after evading Zimmerman instead of going back to confront him she responded with "Trayvon wasn't like that" and that he also referred to him as a "creepy-ass cracker". That doesn't sound like someone who frightened. It sounds like someone who was pissed off and wanted to teach someone a lesson.
Maybe he was "terrorized" by the fact that Zimmerman was larger than him, so he couldn't risk confronting him directly in the possibility he might lose, so he chose to jump out and sucker punch him instead and paid the price for it.
Do I think Trayvon "deserved" to die? No. Not even if he completely started it. However, Zimmerman wasn't wrong to kill him. Have you ever had someone on top of your chest punching your face? I have. Now, unless you have extensive training in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Judo and know the various sweeps to get out of it, it is a very hard position to get out of.
There are basically three ways to get out it if you have no formal training:
1) Start thrashing from side-to-side and try to get the person on top to lose balance. If they they are well positioned, it probably will not work and you still are getting punched in the face in the meantime.
2) Try to roll over onto your stomach and use your better position to stand-up as it is easier to use your arms and your back can support their weight easier. This is actually relatively easy. However, you also risk at least one chokehold in this position, it makes it harder to protect your face in the meantime, it also exposes the neck and the back of head (which holds the part of the brain which controls literally all your vital functions and blows to the back of head are one of the most causes of routine fistfights resulting in death) to additional punches, and it also makes it easier for the other guy to slam your face into the ground.
3) Eye gouge, claw at the mouth or nose, grab the testicles, grab and bite his hand, or shoot him. This is the easiest and probably most effective way for Joe Schmo and they are also banned in every type of martial arts competition because they all can lead to serious injury, but when you have someone punching you in the face and you cannot get out of it, your instincts kick in and there is almostnothing you will not do to get out it.
When a 17 year old is being followed first by car, then on foot and scared of that person I doubt he/she would care if they are being "stalked" by the legal definition of the word or the common definition of the word. People who refuse to see that Martin had a reason to be fearful that night have their heads up their butts.
Here's the thing though. Stalking is illegal. Following is not. Thus if Martin attacked Zimmerman for following him, Martin was in the wrong, legally.
Oh sure he was. All those involved in criminal stalking call the police first and request their presence prior to doing so.
/irony
Of course, you're right. I've not seen a shred of evidence from anyone, including the prosecution, that George did anything illegal. What George did from the first call to the police to getting out of his truck and watching was perfectly within his rights. Many don't think it was prudent, but it was legal. He walked down to the end of the walkway, and back to the Tee. Up to this point, George was doing what he could lawfully do. All indications are that Trayvon was also well within his rights.
It's at this point that the real case begins.
Every argument about stalking and following is a lame one. They are not criminal acts. Given the state of George's face and head, it's at this point where one can only speculate as to how it began, or take it as stated. If George threw a punch and Trayvon ducked, we'll never know. If they argued down the walkway and George placed his hands on Trayvon, again, we'll never know.
The evidence simply is not there to make the case that George started the fight. To be fair, we can't prove he didn't either.
The child abuse claim is grasping at straws from a team that knows its case is pretty much lame.
Sadly, people keep harping on following and stalking because they Need George to be convicted of something, anything, they do not care. Be it because of race, rage, anti-gun sentiment, or even political ideology, that's even sadder, and I would recommend those folks have some deep inner discussions with themselves.
When a 17 year old is being followed first by car, then on foot and scared of that person I doubt he/she would care if they are being "stalked" by the legal definition of the word or the common definition of the word. People who refuse to see that Martin had a reason to be fearful that night have their heads up their butts.
Again... Being scared does not justify assaulting someone.
If he was scared he should have run home and locked the door or called 911 instead of talking to D.D.
No one knows who started it. Everything each party did was legal up to the point of who initiated the physical contact. There is no proof who did this, the burden is on the state to prove Zimmerman did it.
This has been my stance from the very beginning. There has never been and will never be any actual proof as to who hit who first. For some reason, there are some people who want to believe that Zimmerman was just standing there pondering the meaning of life when Martin tackled him out of the blue. What makes them believe this information so quickly...I have no idea. I guess because Zimmerman said so and he has to be telling the truth because people on trial for murder never lie. Ever. Never.
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