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Then you just have a monopoly insurer that employs federal workers at all levels who are compensated better than you.
No, we would have everyone covered by the same system. Like Medicare.
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And it'll pass along the same costs that are being passed along to you now, only in the form of ever higher taxes and national debt. The providers still rule the roost, and the single insurer left--in your case Big Government--will still pass satisfied provider and hospital corp. and drug pusher and device manufacturer rates onto you.
So we'd have the higher taxes and debt and a system that works in place of higher premiums and profits for a system that doesn't work. Sounds like a good trade to me. Because it's not the funding that matters -- it's the health and well-being of the American people.
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You keep trying to avoid that forcing individuals to guarantee a sector's income stream at any cost only results in rising rates.
What sector? What income stream? The insurance companies would be out of business: good. The providers, hospitals, and drug companies would be forced to negotiate with Medicare -- as they do now with retirees: good. Costs would be set and rigorously controlled: good. That's three goods. And everyone has healthcare. I'm not seeing a downside, other than an ideological one. Personally, I'd rather have some people with a bruised ideology than millions of American families one illness from bankruptcy.
The wanted their catastrophic-only. They wanted only plans that covered things that aren't imaginary.
What do you consider imaginary?
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Originally Posted by Hemlock140
As long as the expenses are fairly normal, the HD plan is not too bad. I just checked today on mine, and have only paid out about a thousand so far, a little over a third of the deductible, but all with pre-tax dollars. What will be painful is a real illness or injury where I have to pay up to the $2,800 deductible, and 20% of the rest until hitting $6,000. I found that you need to shop around. My regular doctor is charging over $300 for a shingles vaccination, Costco is only $213 so I'll go there.
Immunizations are supposed to be covered with no co-pay, charge to deductible, etc no matter what type of plan you have.
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Originally Posted by mm4
Catastrophic plans were obtainable by any age before ACA.
Plans that cover "three annual primary care visits and preventive services at no cost, including disease screenings and vaccinations" are not catastrophic-only plans, no matter what Kathleen Sebelius wants to tell you.
There haven't really been any catastrophic plans for decades. All insurance was require to cover certain things; different things in different states. Catastrophic has really long been simply high-deductible.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
What do you consider imaginary?
Immunizations are supposed to be covered with no co-pay, charge to deductible, etc no matter what type of plan you have.
There haven't really been any catastrophic plans for decades. All insurance was require to cover certain things; different things in different states. Catastrophic has really long been simply high-deductible.
That's what we thought, too, also prevention drugs, as do most people, but it depends on how your doctor writes it up and when they do it. For example, blood pressure medication seems to be preventative, as it prevents high blood pressure and prevents heart attacks. Once diagnosed with hypertension, however, it becomes treatment and is not covered. With Shingles my insurer claims it is subject to the deductible and not covered because it's only applicable to people over age 60 who had chicken pox.
It is clear that people getting subsidies will think Ocare is the best thing since sliced bread. Who cares someone else is forced to pay more <that's greed>
No, we would have everyone covered by the same system. Like Medicare.
Medicare now employs federal workers who are better compensated than you.
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Originally Posted by Yeledaf
So we'd have the higher taxes and debt and a system that works in place of higher premiums and profits for a system that doesn't work. Sounds like a good trade to me. Because it's not the funding that matters -- it's the health and well-being of the American people.
Most of you would be living like the perennially and hopelessly underemployed who've protested in the high-tax streets of Brixton and Clichy-sous-Bois for decades. Since they have health care, they don't need to work (the latter of which isn't nearly as important).
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Originally Posted by Yeledaf
What sector? What income stream? The insurance companies would be out of business: good. The providers, hospitals, and drug companies would be forced to negotiate with Medicare -- as they do now with retirees: good.
The 'health' care sector--1/6 of the U.S. economy. The income stream you guarantee to it--no questions asked--when you or your increasingly besieged employers buy insurance policies against potential use of it, at any cost, under mandate (with your purchase enforced under the muzzle of state firepower). Don't worry, they encourage the stratospheric bills to pass through Human Resources, mostly unnoticed by the consumer.
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Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Costs would be set and rigorously controlled: good.
And it's not done now, and it wasn't done in Massachusetts, the birthplace of modern ACA. It's done only in the dreamy, suggestible pinheads of the progressive left that helped usher in what you have now.
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Originally Posted by Yeledaf
Personally, I'd rather have some people with a bruised ideology than millions of American families one illness from bankruptcy.
Then they qualify for Medicaid--after they run out of their own pent-up assets. That's what money's for, not for your cruises and trips to Disney World. I'm not helping you to buy insurance against potential lost personal assets because you would prefer to use them only for fun things. You do that yourself.
That's what we thought, too, also prevention drugs, as do most people, but it depends on how your doctor writes it up and when they do it. For example, blood pressure medication seems to be preventative, as it prevents high blood pressure and prevents heart attacks. Once diagnosed with hypertension, however, it becomes treatment and is not covered. With Shingles my insurer claims it is subject to the deductible and not covered because it's only applicable to people over age 60 who had chicken pox.
That's too bad. I know there is a program for uninsured/underinsured kids; don't know of any for adults. You could try your local health department
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 11-16-2015 at 11:01 PM..
They always have. We all have. That's how insurance WORKS. Any kind of insurance. Your auto insurance premiums subsidize the drunks, the senile, the road rage morons, and the (shudder) uninsured, with their subwoofers and Monster energy drink decals.
But unlike Obamacare, you don't have to pay exorbitant premiums when you own/are a low-risk car and driver.
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But medical care ought to be different. There is no rational connection between insurance and medical care. It's not like driving or homeownership, where skill and luck are germane concerns.
Actually, it is. Those with better eating and exercise habits have far less health issues than those who don't (obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc.), and those who don't smoke and don't abuse drugs and/or alcohol are much healthier than those who do. Those are ALL personal choices, and those who make the better choices are assessed lower premiums. It's an actuarial thing.
Yes I'm saying that the post ACA 2010 USG taking it upon itself to officially define a catastrophic-only plan using the moniker "Catastrophic Only," under ACA individual mandate--and ACA's charter of determining "essential benefits"--is making it up. Out of wholecloth.
Understandable as a good portion of the ACA was people just making it up.
So many operating systems out there in other countries proving you wrong but, hey; what do they all know and have known for at least 60 years while you were floundering around with a sizable proportion of your population going for generations without any kind of insurance at all?
What would they know and have known for decades with no one denying themselves a visit to a doctor because they simply couldn't afford to have that black lung cough dealt with until it was far too late?
What do they all know and have known for decades while you dealt with denial of claims becoming the norm so the Insurance CEO got his bonus?
What would they all know and have known for decades that you have been dealing with this "deductible", "user fees", "compendium of coverage" hurdles trying to navigate through your cancer treatments being denied because you once had a bunion removed and failed to report it.
What do they know and have known for decades while you were being outright denied coverage due to some unrelated pre-existing conditions?
They know they have to tax REGRESSIVELY (greatest tax burden on middle class and poor) to pay for it. Our greedy "Gimme, gimme, GIMME!!!" citizens haven't learned that yet.
It is clear that people getting subsidies will think Ocare is the best thing since sliced bread. Who cares someone else is forced to pay more <that's greed>
I think that providing health care for all would be one of the few decent things I pay taxes for. I'm good with it.
If it ever happens.
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