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Old 10-12-2019, 09:25 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131

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Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Our medical industry is the best in the world if you're independently wealthy.

And it's not bad if you're poor, old or disabled.

But if you're working class or middle class, our medical system is predatory.
I'm glad you took 'female' out.

You don't have to be rich, just be able to comfortably afford conventional HC insurance.

IMO the key is to ease this middle class stress by making monthly premiums more affordable.

Either through central subsidies, rebates or tax credits.

Essentially reduce the premium by about 1/3.

 
Old 10-12-2019, 09:42 AM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,954,715 times
Reputation: 18156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I'm glad you took 'female' out.

You don't have to be rich, just be able to comfortably afford conventional HC insurance.

IMO the key is to ease this middle class stress by making monthly premiums more affordable.

Either through central subsidies, rebates or tax credits.

Essentially reduce the premium by about 1/3.
and deductibles.

I pay for the privilege of coverage IF I have a catastrophic illness. Which I don't. The insurers steal from every single year. I pay them for the privilege of billing me.
 
Old 10-12-2019, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Virginia
10,101 posts, read 6,441,828 times
Reputation: 27665
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
and deductibles.

I pay for the privilege of coverage IF I have a catastrophic illness. Which I don't. The insurers steal from every single year. I pay them for the privilege of billing me.
Yup. I paid as well for the privilege of coverage if I had a catastrophic illness. Which I didn't. Until I did. I'm really grateful that I had, and still have, the coverage I pay for. Heart attacks and rehab aren't cheap.
 
Old 10-12-2019, 09:54 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,963,798 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Let's be a bit more clear. The profit-centered Pharma industry and many profit-centered care centers and doctors IN THE USA do not want things to be cheaper...

As you know, it was with a lot of push from FDR and the government as well as others who were not doing so for CAPITALISM...that the polio cure was found. Salk was amazed when he was asked if he was going to patent the vaccine!

But that is not the typical situation these days.

Please explain, slowly and carefully, the 100's of billions made from opiates - which have existing for thousands of years, but which companies simply reformulated (and trademarked or patented) and then lied and misled to send 100's of thousands of Americans to their death.

Actually, let me stop there. It cannot be explained other than what we already know (I know drug reps). Drug companies have typically hired good looking young women to prance around to Doctors offices to push the product. Then they "buy" doctors to push the products to other doctors.

The USA is the one of the only civilized countries that allows Direct to Consumer drug advertising. Why? Again, I will answer. They make up diseases.....and then provide the "cures", which often are very dangerous. Maybe I can cure my toenail fungus by poisoning every cell in my body. My "restless leg syndrome" was never diagnosed before, but I do tap my feel at lot (I'm a musician).....

And on and on and on and on.

The Health Care system in the USA is very sick.

Explaining it away by "those people have families also" just does not cut it. Rick Scott and the Frists have families - of course. They also have 100's of millions or billions of dollars. One retired health care executive has about ONE BILLION dollars in pension and retirement.

Where do you think that money comes from? If they cared so much they'd be happy with 20 million and the rest wouldn't come out of the life spans of millions of Americans.

Also, listen to those Cancer Center of America commercials. It's a marketing company.
It is no coincidence that we have the most expensive healthcare in the world and is the same field where you have the richest CEOs and Investors out of all other fields.
 
Old 10-12-2019, 09:58 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
and deductibles.

I pay for the privilege of coverage IF I have a catastrophic illness. Which I don't. The insurers steal from every single year. I pay them for the privilege of billing me.
Lucky you. The winners here feel like they are the losers!

1/3 off annual family medical OOP spending. If they tow their medical line and don't overuse services.
 
Old 10-12-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Tip of the Sphere. Just the tip.
4,540 posts, read 2,770,924 times
Reputation: 5277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I'm glad you took 'female' out.

You don't have to be rich, just be able to comfortably afford conventional HC insurance.

IMO the key is to ease this middle class stress by making monthly premiums more affordable.

Either through central subsidies, rebates or tax credits.

Essentially reduce the premium by about 1/3.
Yeah, I looked up the stats. Females are significantly over-represented among Medicaid recipients. But not overwhelmingly so.

But no, simply being able to afford conventional healthcare insurance is *not* enough. If you get seriously ill, you may no longer be able to work and get that insurance. Your life's savings is at *significant* risk.

That problem doesn't exist for the rich. And not really applicable to the indigent.
 
Old 10-12-2019, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,823,758 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
You know I worked in Corporate Finance for a Pharma. Yes, the Sales Reps. made a salary but the majority of their income is based on commissions. They also have quotas that they need to meet. They will be fired if they do not meet their quotas. Yes, they were required to have a college degree but not in science. It was all about how good of a salesperson they are; male and female.

Largest Sales Budget Line Item allocation was for Travel and Entertainment. The Reps were given company cars, which needed to be maintained and filled up to meet with suppliers, as in Pharmacies, Retail Chains, and yes, Doctors as well. What was Entertainment? These suppliers were taken out to lunches and dinners as a business meeting to discuss a product for sale. Entertainment could be anything from a restaurant to bottle of champagne to tickets to a Broadway Play or Sporting Events, and of course, free samples. When there were multiple Reps in a territory, they competed with each other for the sale, and the commission.

The mindset was that a good Sales Rep could sell any product, from a car to a drug. Sales long hours? When a Budget Deadline had to be met, it went on well into the night. Well, at least we went out to a nice restaurant free dinner. That came from the "Entertainment" part of the budget too. It is all part of Corporate Business.
Do you agree with my brother's assessment?
 
Old 10-12-2019, 10:50 AM
 
13,620 posts, read 4,940,342 times
Reputation: 9695
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Cure is not a profitable business model

Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: ‘Is curing patients a sustainable business model?’
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/gold...ess-model.html

“The potential to deliver ‘one shot cures’ is one of the most attractive aspects of gene therapy, genetically-engineered cell therapy and gene editing. However, such treatments offer a very different outlook with regard to recurring revenue versus chronic therapies,” analyst Salveen Richter wrote in the note to clients Tuesday. “While this proposition carries tremendous value for patients and society, it could represent a challenge for genome medicine developers looking for sustained cash flow.”

The money is in managing illness over the lifespan, NOT curing or healing. Keeping people sick enough so that they don't die, yet unwell enough that they need constant care.
I am personally involved in gene therapy research and can tell you, while there is truth in your post, it is much more complicated than that. It will cost companies billions of $$$ to develop these treatments. Most are for rare diseases with only a few patients. Then they take one shot and are cured.

So how can the company recoup the billions they spent to develop the therapy? The only way is to charge a fortune. Many of these will cost $1 million per shot. Then people will howl at the high price, but if the company doesn't produce these drugs people will howl about that.

No company purposely keeps people sick, but if there is a condition that requires frequent, long-term dosing, like high cholesterol or diabetes, that represents a profitable market and companies will invest their research dollars there. What else would expect them to do?
 
Old 10-12-2019, 11:06 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by turkey-head View Post
Yeah, I looked up the stats. Females are significantly over-represented among Medicaid recipients. But not overwhelmingly so.

But no, simply being able to afford conventional healthcare insurance is *not* enough. If you get seriously ill, you may no longer be able to work and get that insurance. Your life's savings is at *significant* risk.

That problem doesn't exist for the rich. And not really applicable to the indigent.
OK.

Most can still get that insurance though through central subsidies if they can't work.

But all HC can do is cover your medical, not typically living expenses. (although sometimes medical travel is covered) That is another social burden.
 
Old 10-12-2019, 11:08 AM
 
18,805 posts, read 8,479,367 times
Reputation: 4131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
I am personally involved in gene therapy research and can tell you, while there is truth in your post, it is much more complicated than that. It will cost companies billions of $$$ to develop these treatments. Most are for rare diseases with only a few patients. Then they take one shot and are cured.

So how can the company recoup the billions they spent to develop the therapy? The only way is to charge a fortune. Many of these will cost $1 million per shot. Then people will howl at the high price, but if the company doesn't produce these drugs people will howl about that.

No company purposely keeps people sick, but if there is a condition that requires frequent, long-term dosing, like high cholesterol or diabetes, that represents a profitable market and companies will invest their research dollars there. What else would expect them to do?
My wife came close to CAR-T therapy about a year ago. $327K. For qualifying indigents it would have been free, provided by the drug company.
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