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Old 10-22-2018, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
3,614 posts, read 1,737,772 times
Reputation: 2740

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
I have worked with special needs children and adults. The general public would be shocked to learn what nature can wreck.

I have cared for two individuals, 4 year old and adult, who were what lay people would call "intersex". Both had non-functioning penises and a vagina. Both their parents identified their gender as male. I had to diaper change both. In the case of the little child, I had to try to potty train him. I do not know what a Sonogram or DNA test would reveal, but I can tell you "his" urinary tract was female.

Because of their mental impairments as well, neither of these individuals will ever identify their gender as male or female. That is going to be solely up to their parents, and now GOVERNMENT?

In the case of the 4 year old, sweet child who was always smiling despite his/her disabilities. Every human being is not going to fit into some preconceived mold which politics wants to put them into.

BTW, do a search on Jamie Lee Curtis. It might shock you.
You are speaking of people who are disabled, thus protected under the Disabilities act of 1990. These people have guardians. These are not who we are talking about. We are talking people that contribute to society, are abled body and can work who born a male or female that are demanding to identify as the opposite gender, or no gender at all. Two different groups of people IMO.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Phila & NYC
4,783 posts, read 3,301,646 times
Reputation: 1953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
We don't really know that yet.

The 2024 Summer Olympics may tell that tale.
Nothing at all to do with the Olympics, Pro Sports, College Sports and probably even High School Sports. What they are talking about is Transgenders not being a protected class , not that they ever were anyways. In college sports for example there could be no mandate that trans athletes be recognized under Title 9, as there never was one anyways, but would not restrict schools from recognizing them and allowing them to compete per the rules of the association that governs them.
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:47 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,740,274 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Even intersex people are genetically male or female though. That's just a birth defect.
No, many intersex people have three sex chromosomes, XXY. That is neither genetically male nor genetically female. Additionally, many of the people who are XXY are physically male. The points is sex is complicated.

Additionally, a whole range of issues can result in genetic and physical mismatch, i.e. androgen insensitivity syndrome. Physically female, genetically male.

And so what if it is a birth defect? Does that mean that laws shouldn't include people who are born intersex?

Quote:
You're claiming that a full complement of normal female sex organs vanish and are magically replaced with a full complement of normal male ones? False.


I don't know where you came up with this, but its not true.
Of course its true. A baby is born female, it becomes male. Do you think they check babies internal anatomy at birth? Where ovaries would be, undeveloped testes.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/5-...ficiency#genes
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:57 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,740,274 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by LGR_NYR View Post
You are speaking of people who are disabled, thus protected under the Disabilities act of 1990. These people have guardians. These are not who we are talking about. We are talking people that contribute to society, are abled body and can work who born a male or female that are demanding to identify as the opposite gender, or no gender at all. Two different groups of people IMO.
Not all people born intersex are disabled.

This model was born intersex. Genetically male, externally female.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanne_Gaby_Odiele

There are many people in this country with a similar or related condition. The laws you are talking about would ruin their lives.
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Eugene, Oregon
11,122 posts, read 5,595,236 times
Reputation: 16596
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-...=hp_lista_pos3

Can't believe it took this long for the federal government to state the obvious, under the law you are male or female. Seems we've been adding a letter to the LGBTABCDEF123456@%^%@...etc etc nonsense pretty much every day.
Will there be gender police patrolling the streets, to arrest anyone whose sex isn't apparent? Would Julia Sweeney's character, "Pat", on Saturday Night Live, have been banned?
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:27 PM
 
4,472 posts, read 3,827,390 times
Reputation: 3427
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
I have little doubt that if Republicans could actually get everything they want accomplished, it would actually be illegal to be gay. We would have an anti-gay law similar to what Russia has. In fact part of the reason for Trump's extreme popularity is people's anger over the decision to legalize gay marriage (though recently abortion has been more in the spotlight). Thing is, once they have rounded up and incarcerated the LGBT community or forced everyone else back in the closet, they will go after other "sinners."

It's hard to believe that only three years after #LoveWins, we have become a nation that has been completely overtaken in backlash by a seething hatred and rage that can't accept that people who don't look, think, act, and believe like them should be allowed to even exist in this country. What a despicable time in history we are living in.
This has nothing to do with gays. Only liberals try to lump gays and transgenders together.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:29 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
16,911 posts, read 10,596,615 times
Reputation: 16439
Common sense and science should dictate this policy. Sex is defined at birth (except in rare cases) by genetics and anatomy.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:38 PM
 
32,071 posts, read 15,072,790 times
Reputation: 13691
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Born a boy, you are male; born a female, you are female. You don’t get to pick and choose later in life.
How are you an authority on this. Anatomy does not always determine gender. How about sometimes we are born with the wrong body part.
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Old 10-22-2018, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
13,561 posts, read 10,361,420 times
Reputation: 8252
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
They can express it. But nobody else can be forced to express it for them.

That's what this does - gets rid of the ability of the mentally ill to force others to share their delusions.
OK - so when are you going in for treatment?

And when are you going to stop forcing the rest of us to submit to your delusions?
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Old 10-23-2018, 02:14 AM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,844 posts, read 2,848,020 times
Reputation: 4194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
Common sense and science should dictate this policy. Sex is defined at birth (except in rare cases) by genetics and anatomy.

Indeed.
Quote:

Transsexuals experience themselves as being of the opposite sex, despite having the biological characteristics of one sex. A crucial question resulting from a previous brain study in male-to-female transsexuals was whether the reported difference according to gender identity in the central part of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc) was based on a neuronal difference in the BSTc itself or just a reflection of a difference in vasoactive intestinal polypeptide innervation from the amygdala, which was used as a marker. Therefore, we determined in 42 subjects the number of somatostatin-expressing neurons in the BSTc in relation to sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and past or present hormonal status. Regardless of sexual orientation, men had almost twice as many somatostatin neurons as women (P < 0.006). The number of neurons in the BSTc of male-to-female transsexuals was similar to that of the females (P = 0.83). In contrast, the neuron number of a female-to-male transsexual was found to be in the male range. Hormone treatment or sex hormone level variations in adulthood did not seem to have influenced BSTc neuron numbers. The present findings of somatostatin neuronal sex differences in the BSTc and its sex reversal in the transsexual brain clearly support the paradigm that in transsexuals sexual differentiation of the brain and genitals may go into opposite directions and point to a neurobiological basis of gender identity disorder.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...60626#52651890


Quote:
Transsexuals have the strong feeling, often from childhood onwards, of having been born the wrong sex. The possible psychogenic or biological aetiology of transsexuality has been the subject of debate for many years. Here we show that the volume of the central subdivision of the bed nucleus of the stria terminals (BSTc), a brain area that is essential for sexual behaviour, is larger in men than in women. A female-sized BSTc was found in male-to-female transsexuals. The size of the BSTc was not influenced by sex hormones in adulthood and was independent of sexual orientation. Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289
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