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If Trump were smart, he would’ve taken the $25B that was on the table in exchange for DACA back in February. He’s been bidding against himself. If the trend continues, the Democrats might get DACA for free. And with some reverse psychology, they might get Trump to insist that $5.7B be allocated to Spanish immersion programs in public schools.
Do we have to go over the specifics of that deal again? Like the fact the $25 billion was allocated over 10 years, a move designed to ensure little wall gets built under Trump and a future congress/pres gets a chance to kill it? Or the fact that the deal also included restrictions on ICE deporting illegals not non-violent criminals which amounted to effective amnesty for 11 million?
Technically, Trump did not shut the government down as there has been no spending bill on his desk to sign or veto. The inaction of Congress to jointly pass a spending bill shut the government down.
Proof that Trump and Miller and others are changing the dynamics of their “ask” so that they can increase the time to reach a settlement
Everything they add to the initial “request” of 5 billion for the wall means additional negotiations, additional ramifications of the additional items on the list https://www.npr.org/2019/01/07/68280...down-continues
This is just proof that the WH wants to continue this epic fail of leadership—
It is a war of attrition and they are hoping that by enlarging the scope of the negotiations they will bring more burden to bear on the Democrats...
The idea that Trump only started the mantra of “build a wall” as a means to get him to focus on immigration during his campaign which has come out in more liberal media over the past few days—and been confirmed by the GOP campaign guy who helped create it—
Should show that Trump has no innate policy beliefs—
He is totally about what gets him what he wants—he doesn’t care about the wall or anything else specifically—
He was TOTALLY surprised when he mentioned building a wall at one campaign rally and got such a strong response—HE didn’t care one way or the other...
The news needs to be speaking with the furloughed workers and the other companies/workers who are shut down because the government services are...
This is the real “trickle down” effect of a government shutdown—
The PERSONAL impact of this is not getting into the consciousness of most Americans who aren’t directly involved but who WOULD CARE if they could understand how it is punishing people for NO GOOD REASON...
If Trump wants to “strike” then let him do without kitchen staff or someone to clean his tanning bed—let Pence and all the WH Staff lose their car privileges and other benefits they are keeping despite the govt shutdown...
Let them feel some of the pain that furloughed workers are feeling...
Yes. He did confirm that it was just a visual to keep Trump talking about how horrible immigrants are. And, Trump got SO MUCH positive reinforcement from it at his 'rallies' that it became a staple of his campaign.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia
Technically, Trump did not shut the government down as there has been no spending bill on his desk to sign or veto. The inaction of Congress to jointly pass a spending bill shut the government down.
Technically, he DID and is currently holding the country hostage until he gets his way. Will he do this for every new demand, do you think?
The House passed a bill to re-open the government and the Senate PREVIOUSLY passed a bill and ole Turtleneck won't send it to Trump so he won't have to veto it.
Yes. He did confirm that it was just a visual to keep Trump talking about how horrible immigrants are. And, Trump got SO MUCH positive reinforcement from it at his 'rallies' that it became a staple of his campaign.
Technically, he DID and is currently holding the country hostage until he gets his way. Will he do this for every new demand, do you think?
The House passed a bill to re-open the government and the Senate PREVIOUSLY passed a bill and ole Turtleneck won't send it to Trump so he won't have to veto it.
As sure as a toddler that stamps his foot and holds his breath every time he does not gets what he wants!
I also am betting the amount he wants is a payment owed to a secret Vladimir or vito coreleone type and not for THE WALL
So 1200 people polled for one, 1000 in another poll used for 2 of the linked articles and the last a UT Trib online poll of 1200. Yep, that’s most Texans
Technically, he DID and is currently holding the country hostage until he gets his way. Will he do this for every new demand, do you think?
The House passed a bill to re-open the government and the Senate PREVIOUSLY passed a bill and ole Turtleneck won't send it to Trump so he won't have to veto it.
Then by your own words "technically" it was ole turtleneck. Trump hasn't taken any legal action at all. He has merely sounded off but cannot legally stop either the House or the Senate from passing a spending bill. So technically, Trump has not shut it down.
WRONG. The workers forced into temporary slavery until the shutdown ends are "excepted employees" (formerly known as "essential employees") while those furloughed are "non-excepted employees" (formerly known as "non-essential employees.") The problem lies with the old wording that many continue to use. The wording changed about 20 years ago, but no-one notices. Many think that they are not essential to government functions which is just total ********.
Basically a government shutdown a works like companies in a snow shutdown: many employees are excused from not working while others are expected to be there, just the workers who need to be there are not paid until the shutdown ends. The other difference is that for weather shutdowns the companies often tell only certain divisions to come in (for instance those that work on healthcare systems would be in but those that work stores wouldn't.)
Another problem here is often times the federal government jobs during a shutdown aren't that cut and dry. Yes you do have museums, national monuments and national parks that close because they aren't funded but there are many essential jobs such as Department of Defense inspectors and the IRS, that see many told to stay home tomorrow because they got furloughed. Often essential work such as inspecting the military equipment going to our troops are cut down from 10 people who may see 4/5 different contractors per week (40-50 contractors in all) down to 3 man crews including a supervisor who hasn't inspected in years. 3 person crews expected to do the work of 10, yeah that is bloated government... Don't get me started with those laughing about the IRS since we have a ratio of about 4,000 people to a single IRS worker in this country, let alone one that handles the phone line or our taxes...
I know this because I have said time and time and time again in these threads, should my mother stayed in her job that she retired from 9 years ago, I would be a family directly effected by this whether she was deemed excepted and forced into slavery until a deal was made, or forced to take an unpaid vacation until a deal was made. Meanwhile, the bills don't take a holiday just because they are furloughed or an employee forced into slavery. Government contractors are similar as well.
The fact is as we get closer and closer to tax time, this will hit home. Right now, we haven't seen a single pay period effected, but by the end of the week we will. If the shutdown continues into February which Trump has said he'd gladly keep the government shutdown untiI he gets what he wants, tax returns will be delayed which could impact second quarter sales which would bomb the stock market into a recession. I don't want to be doom and gloom, but a President who is threatening that and supporters whom I have seen either say fire the non-essential employees (who are subjectively that only in shutdown cases) and pausing tax returns give me reason to be just that. I hope we can get an agreement but Trump is raising the bet into the pot with a bluff.
I used "non-essentials" based on the previous poster's assertion that so many people are not needed.
I agree with your post, really.
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Were you as concerned about who was going to fund the wall back in 2006 when the actual wall bill was passed and it was to be soley funded by the taxpayer? So you think it's cheaper to continue paying the over $100 billion a year that illegal aliens cost us rather than the one time cost of $25 billion for the wall? Here's Trump's plan and no he shouldn't have to wait for Mexico to pay for it as it is needed now!
He told the American people over and over and over Mexico was going to pay for the WALL. If Mexico backed out of the deal he should go find another country to pay for it...or wait til 2020 and see if he is reelected on a campaign promise of building a wall with tax dollars.
This is a manufactured crisis to try and tie up the Democratic House and take some of the air time away from the Mueller investigation.
At this point, there should be an All Mueller Investigation Channel
All Mueller All the Time!
Oh wait, there's several of them already, nm.
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Here's Trump's plan and no he shouldn't have to wait for Mexico to pay for it as it is needed now!
