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Electric cars are the future. So you may as well get used to it. I don't understand why anyone would be against them in the first place. We have a Volt which kicks over to gas if need be. But it hardly ever does because we just plug it in the garage, no special equipment needed. The problem with all electric right now is there aren't enough charging stations especially at airports. That will change though as they become the norm.
I would love to buy one. In San Diego they have a yearly event where you can look at all the vehicles and test drive them. I drove a few and really liked them. My only issue is the point of this thread. It seems like you can’t go very far and there aren’t enough charging stations. When they get that straightened out (and I think they will), I’ll buy one.
Funny thing though...California was encouraging people to buy them to save the environment and gave HOV lane stickers to people that bought one. They were telling people they wouldn’t have to pay for gas, avoid the gas taxes, etc. Then last year it dawned on the politicians that they were losing gas tax money. So they passed an annual $100 fee for electric vehicle owners when they increased the gas tax here.
Why? In the winter, running a heater, EVs take a 40% hit on range-just due to powering the heater. Now, ditch the "low rolling resistance" tires that EVs use to extend range and put on some that are actually safe to drive on ice and snow and the drop is even worse. You might get 20 miles of battery range. Why bother to save what, $1.50 a day vs a comparable size gas car? Add to the fact that (AFAIK) there was never a AWD Volt and it looks even worse. Want to save money? Get a Equinox AWD diesel. 50mpg, 600 mile range and AWD.
Why liquid? Hydrogen cars are an alternative to electric. Burn hydrogen and you get H2O. Hydrogen is easily made from water and is as quick to fill a car as gasoline. Toyota has some experimental hydrogen cars. The technology is straight forward, it just requires infrastructure. Of course with Elon Musk EVs will continue to get the attention. But my money has always been on hydrogen rather than battery.
I have been reading some depressing studies of hydrogen fuel cell powered cars, and they are currently just not economical. These vehicles are for people who are very well off financially and like the status of owning one.
But that does not mean innovation and research should stop, it may take 20-30 years before we have the break through that will allow HFC to make sense for mass production.
They said the same thing about millions of people driving around with gasoline engines, but hydrogen still isn't the future. If anything CNG is the gas option.
Agreed on CNG. It burns cleaner, has been proven with over thirty years of production, and it's fairly cheap and the long term supply takes it into the next century.
Why liquid? Hydrogen cars are an alternative to electric. Burn hydrogen and you get H2O. Hydrogen is easily made from water and is as quick to fill a car as gasoline.........
Well, not really.
The compression and heating of gasses being crammed into a tank is what killed the Compressed Natural Gas Long Haul 18 wheelers. Sounded great, but reality got in the way. It looks like the only natural gas powered vehicles running are the ones who can be fueled over night because they use compressed natural gas - it takes a long time to do it safely.
The hydrogen powered car is a long way off. For now, the winner will be the 30 MPG gas powered sedan in one form or another.
It is against federal law for me to store a charged propane bottle in my garage - that's to protect everyone if the house catches fire. You hydrogen powered car will have similar problems. Do you really want one in your garage?
So, basically whatever someone cared to pull out of their azz to lay blame at the petro industry.
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Originally Posted by Pilot1
Thank you for confirming it is a totally made up number.
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Originally Posted by Wapasha
I have seen people parrot that line before. Allowing oil, gas and mining companies to claim depreciation on their taxes is not subsides. Giving away grants and free money to green energy companies and their customers, that's subsides.
That number is for direct and indirect subsidies.
On the other hand, there are $20B in direct subsidy payments to oil companies.
"Conservative estimates put U.S. direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry at roughly $20 billion per year; with 20 percent currently allocated to coal and 80 percent to natural gas and crude oil." Link: https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fac...societal-costs
I have seen people parrot that line before. Allowing oil, gas and mining companies to claim depreciation on their taxes is not subsides. Giving away grants and free money to green energy companies and their customers, that's subsides.
The EV tax credit is not a subsidy. The buyer of the new EV simply pays less federal tax. No one else pays more tax, and no money is sent to the buyer.
Let's say I drive about the same as you-30 or so miles a day (given that you run only on your EV range). So about 1 gallon a day, or $2.80 or so. Now-I drive 100 a day, so of course burn considerably more. But with the Volt, I'd be running mostly on gas anyway since it doesn't have the range to handle my commute. Especially in the winter, pushing through snow, running a heater.
The Volt is not for everyone. My husband has an hour commute each way. So the Volt is perfect for him. We use my car on weekends. He just leases it. He's waiting for the batteries to improve, which they will.
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