Will the Democratic party ever return to a moderate position that supports working Americans? (NAFTA, Congress)

[beach43ofus]

Originally Posted by Conqueso

Did you build the roads ? The sewers your business needed ? Did you build the US Postal service ? The infrastructure your business needed to thrive.

That's what he was saying.

Business owners and taxpayers paid to have the infrastructure (roads, sewers, postal service...all of it) built, so YES, we built all of that too!

If we didnt have an overbloated government and millions of societal parasites slowing us down, we could have built a LOT more too.

[BobNJ1960]

OP, The answer to your question is no.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by wikiwikirunner

You guys obviously haven’t done a shred of research to back up your claims. First off- it’s pretty d@mn rich that you say “will there ever be a moderate who works for the working class” and then write anyone who actually does just that as a nut job. I will give you that, at least in the current political landscape of the USA, Bernie is far from moderate, but the fact that you write them off in such a way demonstrates that you don’t care that they’re working for the working class anyway. Our government is so far to the right economically that anyone who tries to institute policies that help the common man is written off as an extreme left winger. Which party supports a liveable minimum wage and which doesn’t? Stop with the fear-mongering and trying to spin a politician who actually is trying to help the common man into what your own party’s politicians actually are. I know you won’t actually read any of these sources, you’ve been convinced to vote against your best interests and I’m sorry you’re too worried about “owning the libs” to figure that out. Check out this website Your federal taxes won’t change until you make over $250,000, and at that point we are obviously not talking about the working class anymore. Do research to back up your claims, don’t spew right wing propaganda bull**** about how Bernie is going to take your money and give it to deadbeata, and attack the businesses that provide you health care.

There is a 4% Medicare for all premium, but this removes the financial burden from making your employer pay per year for your health care (read thousands of dollars), which is great for small business, and removes the personal financial burden of paying deductibles and copays. So if you all really believe in trickle down economics, your employer won’t be on the hook to provide you health care anymore. You also won’t be trapped at a job just because you need the insurance. and in theory will pass that savings onto you in the form of a pay raise, and 4% of your taxable income is a lot less than most Americans, and their employers are paying currently. Now I know you’re going to come at me with some sort of mental gymnastics and “BUT YOU ACTUALLY TRUST THE GOVERNMENT??”” comments, but seriously- read some factual information for once about people who actually want to help the common person.

apparently you have done the research

1. medicare (as it is currently) requires co-pays and deductibles, and since it is only a 80/20 insurance..you are still stuck paying your 20%...so if you are getting a double knee replacement which costs 100k, you still get a 20k bill....plus medicare has lots of denial of service...ie they will NOT pay for a lumbar spinal disc replacement, nor will they pay for knee replacement unless they are deemed "medically necessary"...and medicare does not pay for long term care (nursing-homes) AT ALL.

2. (to the bolded)… many in the 55 to 65 range are only still working to have health insurance..so you will see massive retirements happening...which lowers the tax revenue.....

3. those currently on Medicaid,( the poor and working poor) will now see an increase in expenses, as their Medicaid was 100% paid for by the government, but medicare requires a premium payment, a copay, a deductible, and only gives you 80% coverage

4. and IF you change the medicare rules, the costs triple

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by Hesychios

Will the Democratic party ever return to a moderate position that supports working Americans? You keep ignoring the obvious: Republican policies bent upon maximizing corporate profits at the expense of people have been hell bent upon undoing all of our regulations. You can see it yourself in the current policies of the Trump administration (not that the two Bush administrations nor the Reagan administration were substantially any better).

The Republicans recently tried to dismantle or neuter the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and have always been against workplace safety, product safety and informative product labeling, safe tools and machinery & convenience appliances and a fair minimum wage, among other things. You know this.

Don't pretend before all of us that you give a damn about the working Americans when your entire argument is all about protecting banker's rights and your standard bearer is a professional swindler who takes care of his rich backers first and actively works to destroy health care protections for millions of ordinary hard working Americans.

Your arguments don't speak to our concerns. Neither you nor he care about us.

Wrong again. Caring about the American worker includes working to ensure that they have jobs. And not just jobs, but decent paying ones. Trump's policies have been to do exactly that. Fair trade laws that ensure American workers aren't punished when trading with foreign nations. Reducing our corporate tax rate-which reduced the incentive for American companies to move, both jobs and headquarters overseas.

Here's a clue.

Anyone that supports illegal immigration or unrestricted legal immigration, factors that depress the wages and jobs of Americans-does not support American workers.

Anyone that demands that US taxpayers pay for health care for illegal immigrants-does not support American workers.

Anyone that demands that US taxpayers subsidise college for illegals-does not support American workers

Anyone that works to destroy US businesses-does not support American workers

Anyone that supports trade practices that allow other countries to discriminate against American-made products, does not support American workers


Now-which of the Democratic presidential candidates do NOT do those things again?


Speaking of "protecting bankers rights"-the establishment of both parties do that-Trump is one of the few that do not-or at the least, not to the same extent as many others. In case you weren't paying attention-Biden is famously known for supporting and being in the pay of the credit industry.

There are plenty of aspects of Trump I don't like. But he has done more to support the American worker than any president in my lifetime.

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

apparently you have done the research

1. medicare (as it is currently) requires co-pays and deductibles, and since it is only a 80/20 insurance..you are still stuck paying your 20%...so if you are getting a double knee replacement which costs 100k, you still get a 20k bill....plus medicare has lots of denial of service...ie they will NOT pay for a lumbar spinal disc replacement, nor will they pay for knee replacement unless they are deemed "medically necessary"...and medicare does not pay for long term care (nursing-homes) AT ALL.

2. (to the bolded)… many in the 55 to 65 range are only still working to have health insurance..so you will see massive retirements happening...which lowers the tax revenue.....

3. those currently on Medicaid,( the poor and working poor) will now see an increase in expenses, as their Medicaid was 100% paid for by the government, but medicare requires a premium payment, a copay, a deductible, and only gives you 80% coverage

4. and IF you change the medicare rules, the costs triple

The bigger issue is that neither Medicare or Medicaid reimbursement rates pay the cost of care. Meaning that currently, those not on those programs pay a much higher rate than they otherwise would to subsidise the doctors and medical industry at a rate that allows them to survive. Medicare for all means that their reimbursement rates either go up dramatically-or hospitals and other providers go out of business.

[case44]

Today's Democrats have sold themselves out to extremist status, meaning they do not side with the American worker. They've gladly accepted and adopted anything resembling socialism. Moderates in the party are fleeing to the other side, as they've become disenfranchised. There's no way, at this point, that the party as a whole can recover from this.

So, to answer our OP's question, it's a resounding "No."

[Toyman at Jewel Lake]

Originally Posted by case44

Today's Democrats have sold themselves out to extremist status, meaning they do not side with the American worker. They've gladly accepted and adopted anything resembling socialism. Moderates in the party are fleeing to the other side, as they've become disenfranchised. There's no way, at this point, that the party as a whole can recover from this.

So, to answer our OP's question, it's a resounding "No."

You have both extremes with the Democratic party. The far left that are embracing "socialism at any cost", and the "establishment" Dems that are even more in the pockets of big corporations and bankers than any Republican. People like Biden, Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer, Obama-who all have seen their net worth balloon exponentially, while on the government payroll. People like Warren-that rail about the cost of a college education-while receiving nearly $400,000 to teach one class. All of whom promote illegal immigration in order to fill the employment rolls of their corporate sponsors and depress wages of Americans-particularly those of low-skilled minorities.

Compare this to Trump-who has donated every single dollar he's been paid towards a charity (or to fund government services). Name ONE Democrat, either President, Senator or House member, that does so?

[hawkeye2009]

Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake

It has become pretty obvious this election cycle that the Democratic party has completely abandoned any sense of centrism and any efforts to represent the American working class. They have done nothing but attack working Americans and demand that they pay an ever-higher portion of their earnings to fund government. This above the 40% or more of our earnings that we already pay.

Now, that is of course my opinion-tell me, are the following policies aimed at helping or hurting American workers or taxpayers?

1) Working to "level the playing field" regarding our international trade practices. One where our companies and workers are allowed to compete fairly and have the same access to foreign markets that we allow foreign producers to ours?

2) Tax laws that don't penalize companies that employ workers and produce products built in this country.

3) Reducing business taxes to a level competitive with the rest of the world, rather than one that is punitive and drives businesses to purchase products produced elsewhere.

4) We need federal tax revenue-no question. What is a better approach? Direct taxes on American workers and businesses-taxes that punish Americans and encourage companies to move out of this nation? Or taxes on imported goods? (hint-prior to the 16th amendment (income tax) most revenue was from tariffs).

5) Illegal aliens increase competition for low wage, unskilled jobs. This depresses wages and costs jobs for American citizens. Can someone explain just how this helps American workers? Particularly low-skilled, minority workers? A steady supply of low-wage illegals IS something some businesses want. But NOT something that helps American workers.

6) Both controlling illegal immigration and tax policy that encourages domestic production are NOT things that American corporations support. They would prefer to outsource production to foreign nations with cheap labor and no safety and environmental regulations. They also want their supply of cheap illegal workers. Both of these are things that DEMOCRATS have embraced-and President Trump has opposed. To be fair-both establishment Democrats and Republicans favor cheap imports and illegal workers-and have sold out the American working class.

7) Can someone explain just how raising taxes and forcing American workers to fund illegals...helps American workers? We spend some $140 billion a year-money taken from working Americans in the form of taxes, on illegals every single year. Again-just how does this help the American working class? We sacrifice our educational system-rather than offering things like honors classes and doing a better job of education Americans, we spend a disproportionate amount of our educational dollars paying to support "ESL" programs and catering to illiterate foreigners that can't even make the effort to learn English.

8) Let's talk about guns. Gun owners I am aware of are working class people. Most concealed carriers I know are. Let's face it-the American working class can't pay for the private security that protects billionaires like Mike Bloomberg and don't get government funded security like, say, Nancy Pelosi. We are the ones that are often working in sketchier neighborhoods and deal with crime. Yet we are the ones that Democrats are trying to disarm. The Democratic party, as a whole seems to empathize far more with criminals than law abiding American workers.

9) "Tax the rich". American workers are not stupid, like liberal talking heads seem to think we are. American workers know that, without successful businesses, we won't have jobs, or will have to get out of our comfort zones and create our own businesses, which some simply don't want to, to say nothing of the vast majority that lack the skills and abilities to do so. We know that we need people willing to risk their life's savings, and frankly, to bust their butts, to get a business off the ground to provide us with job opportunities. We do not support idiotic, punitive taxes and regulations that punish those that make the effort, take the risks and succeed. Yet we have the bulk of the Democratic candidates promising to punish success-and reward incompetence and laziness. We also know that "the rich" already pay taxes at a vastly disproportionate rate, and that if we drive them out of our states, let alone our nation, the rest of us will have to pay far more to make up for the taxes they pay.


In short-the policies President Trump has pushed, are aimed at helping the American working class. He actually has sided with American workers, even with policies that big businesses opposed. Even when those policies are opposed by both establishment Democrats and Republicans, who in far too many case are in the pockets of corporations.

The Democratic working person has a tough choice to make this year. They can vote for a screeching, ranting old loon of a socialist. One whose efforts are aimed at destroying businesses, killing jobs, and punishing success. Or they can vote for a senile plutocrat that has spent his career fighting for the credit industry over American workers. While both want to violate their civil rights, make American workers slaves to illegals and weaken this nation.

My questions-just when did the Democratic party abandon the American working class? And is it possible they will ever return to embracing policies that actually support American workers, economic growth and freedom?

No- dems have moved far left and will never go back.

[It'sAutomatic]

Originally Posted by momonkey

Sure, because why should my employer continue to pay for my excellent health insurance when we can substitute a really ****ty government-run system for it and shift the cost to working Americans?

So your employer isn't a company of working Americans? The USA already has the highest cost of health care in the entire world. Do you really think you're getting it for free because your employer pays for it? We're all paying for it one way or another.

[natalie469]

Democrats have always supported unions which look out for the middle class. They train them and provide good pay and healthcare. What have republicans done for the middle class?