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Then it isn't a scam demic, is it? That said, the overwhelming majority of people who are (now) hospitalized/dying are those who are not vaccinated, particularly among the 30-59 age group. It's medical science, not politics - although it's also true the overwhelming majority of those who are not vaccinated (or believe it to be a 'scam demic') are conservative.
I didn't use the term scamdemic. They did. This is about a personal medical choice. People can refuse, accept or terminate any medical treatment they wish for any or no reason at any time. People need to understand that No means NO. If CDC and Anthony Fauci don't like it? Too bad. They need to stop trying to be everyone's doctor. If it was about medical science, they wouldn't have lied or withheld material medical information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy
You appear to think vaccination policies (relative to schools, businesses or health care) are a new thing i.e. what about polio, MMR, hepatitis, tetanus and so on?
I'm not a fan of mandatory vaccination of any kind, for any disease, ever. If people deem any disease to be a sufficiently material threat to themselves, they'll find ways to protect themselves from it and they don't need some faceless, ineffectual bureaucrat to force them to do it.
We used to have slavery and Jim Crow, and CDC is known for conducting experiments on prisoners without informed consent, which is a capital offense per the Nuremberg Code. We wasted billions fighting a losing war on 'Drugs' whatever that means. Doesn't mean any of those things should be perpetuated.
That was my point; they were wrong (and now they're dead). They all changed their minds re: the vaccine on their death beds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648
This is about a personal medical choice. People can refuse, accept or terminate any medical treatment they wish for any or no reason at any time.
Sure. Who stated or implied otherwise? Many people are against science i.e. Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, and other religions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648
I'm not a fan of mandatory vaccination of any kind, for any disease, ever.
Many who oppose/don't want the vaccine use inflammatory rhetoric i.e. 'mandatory vaccination' as if everyone would be lined up and injected against their will. It's absurd, as there is a big difference between vaccination policies (relative to schools, businesses or health care) vs. 'mandatory vaccination' as an American.
I didn't use the term scamdemic. They did. This is about a personal medical choice. People can refuse, accept or terminate any medical treatment they wish for any or no reason at any time. People need to understand that No means NO. If CDC and Anthony Fauci don't like it? Too bad. They need to stop trying to be everyone's doctor. If it was about medical science, they wouldn't have lied or withheld material medical information.
I'm not a fan of mandatory vaccination of any kind, for any disease, ever. If people deem any disease to be a sufficiently material threat to themselves, they'll find ways to protect themselves from it and they don't need some faceless, ineffectual bureaucrat to force them to do it.
We used to have slavery and Jim Crow, and CDC is known for conducting experiments on prisoners without informed consent, which is a capital offense per the Nuremberg Code. We wasted billions fighting a losing war on 'Drugs' whatever that means. Doesn't mean any of those things should be perpetuated.
Governments aren't asking for "mandatory vaccination" in America. This is a straw argument and makes your argument against COVID vaccines weak. What we are seeing is public workforces asked to get a vaccine or get tested, perhaps they have to look elsewhere for employment. We also see the free market at work with at will employment of employers wanting employees to get vaccinated. The free market is at play through this. Nobody, even government is forcing employers to make the decisions to ask employees to get vaccinated or not. Somehow you haven't gotten this.
Governments aren't asking for "mandatory vaccination" in America. This is a straw argument and makes your argument against COVID vaccines weak.
Joe Biden used the words 'vaccination REQUIREMENT'. DiBlasio enacted vaccine passports in New York City, where you are forcibly denied service, even if the business owner wants to serve you, without proof of vax. Sounds very mandatory to me.
I'll reserve judgment on the current slate of COVID vaccines for about, oh, 10 years. I'm not against vaccination in general. I'm against exerting ANY external influence, in any way, shape or form, on people who would otherwise choose not to vaccinate or vaccinate. Inform. Anything further than that is inappropriate, and anything that goes into duress or coercion territory is a capital offense per international law. If the patient says No, any further conversation relating to vaccination needs to come to an immediate halt. They made their decision, it's final, and it's not subject to appeal by some bureaucrat. I don't care what other people do and I don't even ask.
People need to mind their own business. End of Discussion. People's medical history is none of your business. And that goes especially for the government. Joe Biden, the ****up in chief, needs to shut his trap and leave people alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
What we are seeing is public workforces asked to get a vaccine or get tested, perhaps they have to look elsewhere for employment. We also see the free market at work with at will employment of employers wanting employees to get vaccinated. The free market is at play through this.
Funny, federal employees are required to be vaccinated but not the White House staff. This is the biggest inconsistency to me that makes me believe that something smells about these vaccines. There's also one little detail - Pfizer and Moderna have kept it optional for their own employees.
Big tech and big finance seem to be requiring it, but outside of that, no one else cares. They don't ask and I don't tell. And any employer that feels the need to ask or dictate would cause me to seriously think about even patronizing them as a customer, let alone work for them. You really want to signal to the job market right now that you don't believe your employees are capable of being adults?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
Nobody, even government is forcing employers to make the decisions to ask employees to get vaccinated or not. Somehow you haven't gotten this.
You seriously think democrats are going to stop at angry and self-righteous press conferences? What the hell do you call NYC and San Francisco's mandate? No vax, No Service sound like a REQUIREMENT to me. Businesses are being FORCED against their will to turn away paying customers and qualified employees they would otherwise never turn away. The vast majority of businesses, outside of a few zealots, don't care. Money is money is money to them.
Last edited by albert648; 08-28-2021 at 05:51 PM..
Just going by what I’ve read on here, my FB and other comments.
Pro vaccine people talk about getting the vaccine to keep everyone safe. To protect themselves, family, friends, coworkers. Yet are nasty to anyone who questions the vaccine or get sick and aren’t vaccinated. I’ve read people call if Karma. Saying they should be denied medical treatment. Wishing harm or death on unvaccinated people. Calling them murders. You’re supposed to be the “good” people who care about all yet can say such awful things?
For some, medicine and vaccines are a matter of science. For others, it's a matter of faith. For the latter group, disagreement is tantamount to heresy.
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It seems disingenuous - to be nice - to say it isn't about politics. Sure, the fact that there's a virus isn't political. But what should be done about it? That's 100% a political question. It's a relevant issue, the degree to which masks are effective. It's a relevant issue, whether a vaccine is available. It's a relevant issue, whether such vaccine prevents infection or just mitigates symptoms for a few months.
It seems reasonable that those factors influence the degree of response - particularly the degree of mandates - and it seems obvious that different people will arrive at different judgments.
An objection: "but the average person isn't qualified to make those judgments." Well, that can be your position - I'd say good luck with that, but then I'd be disingenuous.
That was my point; they were wrong (and now they're dead). They all changed their minds re: the vaccine on their death beds.
Sure. Who stated or implied otherwise? Many people are against science i.e. Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, and other religions.
Many who oppose/don't want the vaccine use inflammatory rhetoric i.e. 'mandatory vaccination' as if everyone would be lined up and injected against their will. It's absurd, as there is a big difference between vaccination policies (relative to schools, businesses or health care) vs. 'mandatory vaccination' as an American.
That's naive. Just wait. A mandate is not an inflammatory word. It's an accurate one. What do you think the vaccine passport is for? Last year's conspiracy theories are this year's truths.
Joe Biden used the words 'vaccination REQUIREMENT'. DiBlasio enacted vaccine passports in New York City, where you are forcibly denied service, even if the business owner wants to serve you, without proof of vax. Sounds very mandatory to me.
I'll reserve judgment on the current slate of COVID vaccines for about, oh, 10 years. I'm not against vaccination in general. I'm against exerting ANY external influence, in any way, shape or form, on people who would otherwise choose not to vaccinate or vaccinate. Inform. Anything further than that is inappropriate, and anything that goes into duress or coercion territory is a capital offense per international law. If the patient says No, any further conversation relating to vaccination needs to come to an immediate halt. They made their decision, it's final, and it's not subject to appeal by some bureaucrat. I don't care what other people do and I don't even ask.
People need to mind their own business. End of Discussion. People's medical history is none of your business. And that goes especially for the government. Joe Biden, the ****up in chief, needs to shut his trap and leave people alone.
Funny, federal employees are required to be vaccinated but not the White House staff. This is the biggest inconsistency to me that makes me believe that something smells about these vaccines. There's also one little detail - Pfizer and Moderna have kept it optional for their own employees.
Big tech and big finance seem to be requiring it, but outside of that, no one else cares. They don't ask and I don't tell. And any employer that feels the need to ask or dictate would cause me to seriously think about even patronizing them as a customer, let alone work for them. You really want to signal to the job market right now that you don't believe your employees are capable of being adults?
You seriously think democrats are going to stop at angry and self-righteous press conferences? What the hell do you call NYC and San Francisco's mandate? No vax, No Service sound like a REQUIREMENT to me. Businesses are being FORCED against their will to turn away paying customers and qualified employees they would otherwise never turn away. The vast majority of businesses, outside of a few zealots, don't care. Money is money is money to them.
White House employees are under the same vaccine requirements as all other federal workers.
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