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"We may still not know precisely how long immunity to the new coronavirus lasts, but researchers don't think it's forever.
'With human coronaviruses, you can get repeatedly infected — you're not immune for life, you're immune for some time,' Florian Krammer, a vaccinologist at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, told Business Insider.
'There's no reason to think this coronavirus will behave differently,' he added.
That means that even after coronavirus vaccines become available and get widely distributed, we'll likely need booster shots to stay protected over time."
Can you read my post again and answer if you recall the “One and Done” J&J campaign?
I remember people saying that the vaccine would prevent covid. They did not talk about boosters at all because they thought it would lead to long term protection from catching covid.
Me? My logic says no masks for 2-year-olds. Duh! Next time, ask me versus trying to pin a stupid idea that I would never support. To be clearer, whoever had that idea should be fired! In 2022, I'm not wearing a mask. The current version doesn't warrant it.
Let's break down some logic: yes no answers please:
1. Does a higher viral load increase the chances of getting COVID?
2. Does outdoor air reduce the viral load and chances of getting COVID?
3. If you breathe in someone's spit particles, does that increase the odds of having a higher viral load?
4. If you are farther away from someone, does it drop the probability of getting a higher viral load?
5. And here is the big one, if I put a well-fitted mask on my face with good filtration to larger particles, do you think that reduces the viral load?
If it works is a matter of degree.
Let me put it this way, if you have an AC in your home that produced cold air but would never cool your home more than 1 degree, you would not say it works because it's producing cold air, you'd say it doesn't work.
If masks stop a little amount of virus, that doesn't noticeably affect transmission, you cannot say masks work.
Doing CRT (cluster randomized trials) with masks is hard, but were done with cloth/surgical and neither were found effective (cloth masks 0, surgical masks reduced transmission by 9% but this wasn't statistically significant - study done in Bangladesh of all places).
Our health authorities could have run CRTs on masks - cloth, surgical, n95. For some reason, they didn't. So I'm left to pointing to a study out of Bangladesh with many problems (and no coverage on n95s!).
They did a bunch of lousy ecological retrospective studies with so many confounding factors you'd wonder if they were actual scientists or just plain lazy. In the Arizona study, they [CDC] even used a school district closed for summer break. They were so embarrassed by this they did another one in Arkansas.
Anyways, do I think masks can work? In certain settings, with certain masks, with motivated people who are properly trained in using them - maybe. But as a blanket intervention, applied to everyone, applied to people who are not motivated (like me!) or people who don't know how to wear them (hint if you have a beard, even a tight fitting n95 is useless) 24/7 and everywhere, I don't think that works at all.
Do you not remember the “one and done” slogan for the J&J vaccine. A lot of people including “the experts”didn’t think we would need boosters.
Here is how I thought about it during that exact timeline. One shot versus two. That's it. And they said it because of marketing (it rhymed). Nothing more, nothing less.
We both agree that initially, NO ONE was talking about a booster. Therefore, the experts were suspicious and intentionally didn't discuss it. If we are correct, they manipulated the narrative. It was oversimplified and/or they were trying to sell the anti-vaxxers "for the good of society". See how easy it is to not be biased on a single side? Give it a try! Now answer my questions!
Can you read my post again and answer if you recall the “One and Done” J&J campaign?
I remember people saying that the vaccine would prevent covid. They did not talk about boosters at all because they thought it would lead to long term protection from catching covid.
It did not.
"One and done" referred to the one dose initial series. Where did J&J claim no boosters would ever be needed?
What "people"?
I notice you ignored my request to name the "experts" who did not think boosters would be needed.
Me? My logic says no masks for 2-year-olds. Duh! Next time, ask me versus trying to pin a stupid idea that I would never support. To be clearer, whoever had that idea should be fired! In 2022, I'm not wearing a mask. The current version doesn't warrant it.
Let's break down some logic: yes no answers please:
1. Does a higher viral load increase the chances of getting COVID?
2. Does outdoor air reduce the viral load and chances of getting COVID?
3. If you breathe in someone's spit particles, does that increase the odds of having a higher viral load?
4. If you are farther away from someone, does it drop the probability of getting a higher viral load?
5. And here is the big one, if I put a well-fitted mask on my face with good filtration to larger particles, do you think that reduces the viral load?
1. Does a higher viral load increase the chances of getting COVID?
Answer: It depends on many variables. Have you previously been infected with COVID? How long is the exposure to a "higher viral load"? Are you obese? Are you over 70? Are you immunocompromised? Whether or not you are wearing a mask you can breathe through has nothing to do with it. If you can breathe through it, you can breathe in the virus through it.
2. Does outdoor air reduce the viral load and chances of getting COVID?
Probably not. Studies have proven that air quality in airplanes is better than outdoors, and you are not breathing "outdoor air" on an airplane. Additionally, we have two years of data that shows statistically zero difference in transmission & case rates among states and localities with severe mitigation measures in place verses states and localities with no mitigation measures in place
3. If you breath in someone's spit particles, does that increase the odds of having a higher viral load?
If the person whose spit particles are breathed in is either healthy or asymptomatic, it doesn't matter. Also, this can be addressed by practicing good manners such as covering your mouth and/or turning your head when you sneeze or cough. Just as we have done for decades if not centuries. The rare situation in which someone is breathing in someone else's "spit particles" is no justification for forcing every human being to wear a mask at all times, especially for the dubious benefit of some lessened "viral load" that is really insignificant. The variables that matter when it comes to getting or not getting COVID are listed above in Answer #1.
4. If you are farther away from someone, does it drop the probability of getting a higher viral load?
No, studies have proven that the "six feet away rule" is worthless. Just like closing down beaches and putting police tape across playgrounds is worthless. Do you also believe you should put Amazon packages in your garage for three days before opening them? That's the same type of voodoo "mitigation" medicine mask proponents espoused early on in COVID. I'm not sure why they are still clinging to masks when all the other nonsense has been dismissed, as it rightly has been.
5. And here is the big one, if I put a well-fitted mask on my face with good filtration to larger particles, do you think that reduces the viral load?
No. I actually asked you a question first post 174. You ignored it.
I have no obligation to to answer your silly childish questions as you try desperately to ignore the scientific evidence on masks.
Really? I'm trying to get you to think down a logical trail! Now answer the questions.
I can go on all day:
1. If someone coughs in your face versus breaths on you, is there a difference in viral load?
2. Does mouthwash reduce a viral load?
3. Do plastic in front of tellers reduce a viral load?
4. If someone talks louder or sings, can it increase their viral load for people breathing their air?
Do you see where I'm going with this yet? Or are you going to stomp your feet and say masks don't work. Masks are used in operating rooms, clean rooms, etc to reduce defect densities and other contaminants. No, they don't prevent defects or contaminants. It reduces them. That's what you are missing.
Studies that combine a massive amount of data and try and correlate something easily become statistical lies. And you can prove whatever you want with statistical lies and poorly run experiments. When you answer the earlier questions and this last batch of 4, maybe you will see the light.
What's the saying: " you can lead a horse to water..." lol
Let me put it this way, if you have an AC in your home that produced cold air but would never cool your home more than 1 degree, you would not say it works because it's producing cold air, you'd say it doesn't work.
If masks stop a little amount of virus, that doesn't noticeably affect transmission, you cannot say masks work.
Doing CRT (cluster randomized trials) with masks is hard, but were done with cloth/surgical and neither were found effective (cloth masks 0, surgical masks reduced transmission by 9% but this wasn't statistically significant - study done in Bangladesh of all places).
Our health authorities could have run CRTs on masks - cloth, surgical, n95. For some reason, they didn't. So I'm left to pointing to a study out of Bangladesh with many problems (and no coverage on n95s!).
They did a bunch of lousy ecological retrospective studies with so many confounding factors you'd wonder if they were actual scientists or just plain lazy. In the Arizona study, they [CDC] even used a school district closed for summer break. They were so embarrassed by this they did another one in Arkansas.
Anyways, do I think masks can work? In certain settings, with certain masks, with motivated people who are properly trained in using them - maybe. But as a blanket intervention, applied to everyone, applied to people who are not motivated (like me!) or people who don't know how to wear them (hint if you have a beard, even a tight fitting n95 is useless) 24/7 and everywhere, I don't think that works at all.
I appreciate your post. When it was applicable, I personally used a well fitted mask. I use to be a process engineer in a semiconductor fab. I'm familiar with what an Angstrom, micron, and the size of viruses.
Yep. Most people wore junk masks. And as the virus mutated (more transmissive) mask benefits dropped. And if you have kids in a classroom all day with crappy and droopy masks, it might help for 5 minutes. Maybe.
IMO, the mask benefit was for people who were walking in public or in a quick conversation. The better the mask, the more it helped.
Please either cite the posts where I said those things or stop trying to put words into my mouth.
No one has said "if boosters were needed it most likely wouldn't be for a long time." What was said is that whether boosters would be needed was unknown and could only be determined with the passage of time.
Suzy never said that if you get vaccinated you "wouldn't get or transmit covid." She has said the risk of doing so is reduced.
Initially breakthrough infections were rare. They became more common as the virus mutated and protection from the vaccines waned. Suzy has never denied that protection from the vaccines wanes. Boosters do reduce breakthrough infections.
I said: Suzy (and other posters) has said that if (big IF) boosters were needed it most likely wouldn't be for a long time.
If boosters are needed you will need to keep them current. It is not even a sure thing that they will be, yet. If they are it does not look like it will be more often than a year.
I said: Suzy has said, along with our doofus president & Fauci, that if you got vaccinated, you wouldn't get or transmit covid.
"Findings from the analysis were derived from de-identified aggregate Israel MoH surveillance data collected between January 17 and March 6, 2021, when the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine was the only vaccine available in the country and when the more transmissible B.1.1.7 variant of SARS-CoV-2 (formerly referred to as the U.K. variant) was the dominant strain. Vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% against symptomatic COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, severe and critical hospitalizations, and deaths. Furthermore, the analysis found a vaccine effectiveness of 94% against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. For all outcomes, vaccine effectiveness was measured from two weeks after the second dose."
I'll be back with the "breakthrough infections are rare" link. I have a life.
On second thought, I don't need to because you just admitted it.
1. Does a higher viral load increase the chances of getting COVID?
Answer: It depends on many variables. Have you previously been infected with COVID? How long is the exposure to a "higher viral load"? Are you obese? Are you over 70? Are you immunocompromised? Whether or not you are wearing a mask you can breathe through has nothing to do with it. If you can breathe through it, you can breathe in the virus through it.
2. Does outdoor air reduce the viral load and chances of getting COVID?
Probably not. Studies have proven that air quality in airplanes is better than outdoors, and you are not breathing "outdoor air" on an airplane. Additionally, we have two years of data that shows statistically zero difference in transmission & case rates among states and localities with severe mitigation measures in place verses states and localities with no mitigation measures in place
3. If you breath in someone's spit particles, does that increase the odds of having a higher viral load?
If the person whose spit particles are breathed in is either healthy or asymptomatic, it doesn't matter. Also, this can be addressed by practicing good manners such as covering your mouth and/or turning your head when you sneeze or cough. Just as we have done for decades if not centuries. The rare situation in which someone is breathing in someone else's "spit particles" is no justification for forcing every human being to wear a mask at all times, especially for the dubious benefit of some lessened "viral load" that is really insignificant. The variables that matter when it comes to getting or not getting COVID are listed above in Answer #1.
4. If you are farther away from someone, does it drop the probability of getting a higher viral load?
No, studies have proven that the "six feet away rule" is worthless. Just like closing down beaches and putting police tape across playgrounds is worthless. Do you also believe you should put Amazon packages in your garage for three days before opening them? That's the same type of voodoo "mitigation" medicine mask proponents espoused early on in COVID. I'm not sure why they are still clinging to masks when all the other nonsense has been dismissed, as it rightly has been.
5. And here is the big one, if I put a well-fitted mask on my face with good filtration to larger particles, do you think that reduces the viral load?
No, for all the reasons stated above and more.
It was a yes-no question. So it seems you think a viral load isn't relevant. Distance doesn't matter either. Congrats, you are plowing your own unique theory. I have to ask. What line of work are you in?
It would be even better for the experts who were clearly wrong to admit they screwed up "the game" 2 years later.
Americans in general no matter their party are not known for being prepared ahead of disasters or conducting lessons learned exercises following disasters.
You would think we would learn; but we don't.
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My logic says no masks for 2-year-olds. Duh! Next time, ask me versus trying to pin a stupid idea that I would never support. To be clearer, whoever had that idea should be fired! In 2022, I'm not wearing a mask. The current version doesn't warrant it.
Give it a try! Now answer my questions!
Masks are used in operating rooms, clean rooms, etc to reduce defect densities and other contaminants. No, they don't prevent defects or contaminants. It reduces them. That's what you are missing.
