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Old 07-02-2016, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Adam and Eve were born with free will, why wouldn't the SERPENT also have free will?...

The incident in the Garden was necessary for man's growth out of adolescence...
Very good observations. I'm sure you're familiar with how עָרוּם is used elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible. It really helps illuminate the nature of the snake. He was good at rules-lawyering heh heh. He made sure that most of what he said was technically true from a legal point, if not actually true. He was truly 'arum. I should add that the grammatical construction of the sentence indicates that snake had been created עָרוּם and was still עָרוּם . This helps preclude any notion that some diabolical being "possessed" the snake. The very nature of עָרוּם as found elsewhere in the Bible also precludes any idea that his motivations were diabolical.

Last edited by whoppers; 07-02-2016 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 07-02-2016, 12:31 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Look, I'm only reading the text of Genesis, which very clearly and explicitly states that in the Garden of Eden a talking, walking snake was created by God. Let's look at that again:
Now the snake was more shrewd than all the living-things of the field that YHWH, God, had made.
(Gen 3:1 SB Fox)
A lot of crazy stuff happens in the first 11 chapters of Genesis: the world was surrounded by water, the sky was made out of metal, when it rained it was just windows being opened in the sky, all animals and humans were created to be vegans, talking snakes, a man being formed from mud and dirt and molded by hand, a woman created out of one of the man's bones, animals getting along and not killing each other, trees of knowledge, trees of life, people living to be 900 years old, gods coming down and having sex with human women and producing a race of half-divine "giants", a flood that destroys virtually the entire world but spares a few, a boat that somehow holds 2 of every animal - it's all very fantastical. So claiming that the Garden story does not relate a talking snake because that's not the way the world is today... is not a good argument. If you want to use that argument, then the rest of the crazy stuff in Genesis 1-11 never happened either. But that's the point: Genesis 1-11 happened in the Primeval Age - everything was different back then. It's the same in every Ancient Near Eastern culture - they make a huge division between the Primeval Ages and the Post-Diluvian Age when real history actually started.


You can read the text that we have and deal with it - even if you don't understand it or it seems crazy - or you can try to explain it away to make yourself feel better. The latter choice is not very honest.

Martin Luther commented on the story in which Eve is created from a rib and basically said that if one used his own sense of reason and logic, then it was a nonsensical fairy tail, but because he believed in the Authority of Scripture he had no choice but to accept it as actually having happened. Even if it's utterly nonsensical.
Now there's the problem...If one reads the Jewish sages, it would make better sense...Like Eden actually being in NE Africa...Not Mesopotamia, which is where civilization began...Whic science shows the former while archaeology shows the latter...

Last edited by Richard1965; 07-02-2016 at 01:06 PM..
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Old 07-02-2016, 08:30 PM
 
Location: California USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarantula spider View Post
I just don't understand why Satan is supposed to be a baddie but the Biblical god all that is good? The deeds attributed to god are highly unpleasant to say the least, and indicate the entity is very deranged. Although poor Satan is always badmouthed, no actual misdeeds have been attributed to him.
The below is with the understanding that many on this forum regard the Bible as fiction. However, as the OP asks why is Satan such a baddie (presumably by those who believe in the existence of God and Satan) Here's another look at the Book of Job.

The Book of Job offers further insight as to the unpleasant deeds (deranged acts) committed by Satan. As previously posted the first chapter opens the scene with Satan walking in among those assembled before God and making an accusation that Job and by extension man does not serve God out of love but out of selfish desires. Job 's children are then killed by Satan, his livestock and servants are taken and/or killed (for the most part) depriving him of material wealth and finally Satan inflicts a painful disease on Job himself.

Job had three false comforters. One in particular, Eliphaz, words are recorded in the fourth chapter of Job:

Job 4:12-21
12
“A word was secretly brought to me,
my ears caught a whisper of it.

13
Amid disquieting dreams in the night,
when deep sleep falls on people,

14
fear and trembling seized me
and made all my bones shake.

15
A spirit glided past my face,
and the hair on my body stood on end.

16
It stopped,
but I could not tell what it was.
A form stood before my eyes,
and I heard a hushed voice:

17
‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?

18
If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,

19
how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust,
who are crushed more readily than a moth!

20
Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;
unnoticed, they perish forever.

21
Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,
so that they die without wisdom?’

Here Eliphaz had come under ungodly influence from the spirit realm. This false comforter characterized God as one who is so exacting that no matter the good one does it will never satisfy God. Without interpretation that is how the scripture reads.

Of interest also in reading the Book of Job is the knowledge that Job isn't aware that Satan has inflicted these blows but God is assumed to be the baddie. If you are an opponent of someone one of the most effective ways to turn people away from that person is to cast him in a bad light.
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Old 07-02-2016, 09:23 PM
 
Location: California USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoppers View Post
Yikes.
Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible does it identify a diabolical figure known as "Satan" as being present in the Garden or manipulating the serpent in any way. The serpent is clearly responsible for it's own actions.
As for the "Satan" in the Book of Job, it's not a personal name. It's a common noun used as a title: "the satan". This is clear from the Hebrew text, or a good accurate translation. See my previous comments in this thread. No need to repeat them.

There's no need to add imaginative things to the text of the Hebrew Bible. It speaks fairly clearly. And there's also no need to re-write the text of the Hebrew Bible from the viewpoint of a Greek New Testament author.
In the Hebrew scriptures "satan" appears without the definite article and simply means resister. However, the Hebrew Scriptures also include the definite article "ha" which then refers to the chief adversary of God.The definite article is used in Job 1:6, 2:1-7 and Zechariah 3:1,2. Zechariah 3:1,2 states, "And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah, and Satan was standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 Then the angel of Jehovah said to Satan: “May Jehovah rebuke you, O Satan, yes, may Jehovah, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this one a burning log snatched out of the fire?” Yes he is an actual being and while never opposing God in terms of power he does challenge him in terms of sovereignty. The result has been death for human kind. The actions inflicted on Job were unrighteous (again not committed by God but by Satan). Why do you think God's anger blazed against the false comforters of Job who attributed the trials Job was undergoing as somehow related to God? That is why Jesus identified Satan as the murderer and father of the lie in John 8:44. That is why the apostle John identified the serpent as Satan in Revelation 12:9, "The great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." He is not simply some agent used by God. The book of Job shows us that he isn't an agent of God. The scripture in Zechariah also demonstrates that he isn't an agent of God. Moses's words would ring hollow, "The Rock, perfect is his activity,For all his ways are justice.A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;Righteous and upright is he." All the Hebrew Scriptures in which God is described as upright, righteous, holy do not support such a viewpoint. Men interpret scriptures and develop teachings and traditions yet the scriptures are their to correct our thinking.
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Old 07-03-2016, 12:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
In the Hebrew scriptures "satan" appears without the definite article and simply means resister. However, the Hebrew Scriptures also include the definite article "ha" which then refers to the chief adversary of God.The definite article is used in Job 1:6, 2:1-7 and Zechariah 3:1,2.
You have that exactly backwards. Even in English, you have confused a definite article with the lack of an article.

Wikipedia and 1st Grade English grammar to the rescue!

For proper names - "whoppers", "hd4me", "Joey Baloney", "Moses" - you don't require an article.

For other things, you need an article. One of those articles is called "the definite article":
def·i·nite ar·ti·cle
nounGrammar

noun: definite article; plural noun: definite articles
  1. a determiner ( the in English) that introduces a noun phrase and implies that the thing mentioned has already been mentioned, or is common knowledge, or is about to be defined (as in the book on the table ; the art of government ; the famous poet and short story writer ).






So we have "the dog", "the snake", "the pig", "the cow" - these all have definite articles. Biblical Hebrew uses "ha-" as the definite article, as part of the noun, so "ha-dog", "ha-snake", "ha-pig", "ha-cow".

So now you can look at what you wrote and switch them around.

There is one reference to "Satan" in Chronicles (the census) and the rest of the occurrences are to "the satan" and have the definite article: "the".

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
Men interpret scriptures and develop teachings and traditions yet the scriptures are their to correct our thinking.
Exactly - let's hope that the Biblical text actually corrects your thinking on this matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
The Book of Job offers further insight as to the unpleasant deeds (deranged acts) committed by Satan.
And now that you understand what a definite article actually means, you can stop using the proper name "Satan" in regards to the Book of Job. As you said, the "scriptures are their [sic] to correct our thinking".
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:35 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
The below is with the understanding that many on this forum regard the Bible as fiction. However, as the OP asks why is Satan such a baddie (presumably by those who believe in the existence of God and Satan) Here's another look at the Book of Job.

The Book of Job offers further insight as to the unpleasant deeds (deranged acts) committed by Satan. As previously posted the first chapter opens the scene with Satan walking in among those assembled before God and making an accusation that Job and by extension man does not serve God out of love but out of selfish desires. Job 's children are then killed by Satan, his livestock and servants are taken and/or killed (for the most part) depriving him of material wealth and finally Satan inflicts a painful disease on Job himself.

Job had three false comforters. One in particular, Eliphaz, words are recorded in the fourth chapter of Job:

Job 4:12-21
12
“A word was secretly brought to me,
my ears caught a whisper of it.

13
Amid disquieting dreams in the night,
when deep sleep falls on people,

14
fear and trembling seized me
and made all my bones shake.

15
A spirit glided past my face,
and the hair on my body stood on end.

16
It stopped,
but I could not tell what it was.
A form stood before my eyes,
and I heard a hushed voice:

17
‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?
Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?

18
If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,

19
how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust,
who are crushed more readily than a moth!

20
Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;
unnoticed, they perish forever.

21
Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,
so that they die without wisdom?’

Here Eliphaz had come under ungodly influence from the spirit realm. This false comforter characterized God as one who is so exacting that no matter the good one does it will never satisfy God. Without interpretation that is how the scripture reads.

Of interest also in reading the Book of Job is the knowledge that Job isn't aware that Satan has inflicted these blows but God is assumed to be the baddie. If you are an opponent of someone one of the most effective ways to turn people away from that person is to cast him in a bad light.
It seems Christians still do not understand the Book of Job and therefore do not understand what HaSatan is...

If HaSatan is as bad as you state, then that means that G-d is just as bad, or worse...
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:09 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me View Post
In the Hebrew scriptures "satan" appears without the definite article and simply means resister. However, the Hebrew Scriptures also include the definite article "ha" which then refers to the chief adversary of God.The definite article is used in Job 1:6, 2:1-7 and Zechariah 3:1,2. Zechariah 3:1,2 states, "And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah, and Satan was standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 Then the angel of Jehovah said to Satan: “May Jehovah rebuke you, O Satan, yes, may Jehovah, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this one a burning log snatched out of the fire?” Yes he is an actual being and while never opposing God in terms of power he does challenge him in terms of sovereignty. The result has been death for human kind. The actions inflicted on Job were unrighteous (again not committed by God but by Satan). Why do you think God's anger blazed against the false comforters of Job who attributed the trials Job was undergoing as somehow related to God? That is why Jesus identified Satan as the murderer and father of the lie in John 8:44. That is why the apostle John identified the serpent as Satan in Revelation 12:9, "The great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him." He is not simply some agent used by God. The book of Job shows us that he isn't an agent of God. The scripture in Zechariah also demonstrates that he isn't an agent of God. Moses's words would ring hollow, "The Rock, perfect is his activity,For all his ways are justice.A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;Righteous and upright is he." All the Hebrew Scriptures in which God is described as upright, righteous, holy do not support such a viewpoint. Men interpret scriptures and develop teachings and traditions yet the scriptures are their to correct our thinking.
Outside of the two times that a personified HaSatan is used, there are eight others where four are verbs and four are adjectives...This is throughout the whole Tanakh...Problem is that you don't realize that the personified HaSatan in Job works for G-d...It is his job to "walk to and fro, up and down", searching for those that are worthy to be tested...This is why G-d asks him, "have you considered my servant, Job?"...It is HaSatan's job to present you with a temptation, then see what you do, what choice you make...Do you follow your Yetzer HaTov (good inclination)or do you follow your Yetzer HaRa (bad inclination)?...HaSatan just doesn't present you with bad temptations, he also presents you with good temptations...In other words, he just doesn't through a naked woman in your path, he also throughs the man next door with a wife and five children where he just lost his job two weeks prior and down to their last can of beef barley soup, what do you do?...Go buy two weeks worth of groceries to sustain them until he connects with another job or say to youself, "his problems are not my problems", and to on your merry way?...This, too, is a temptation...A temptation to be selfish and keep your money in your own pocket and let your neighbor fend for himself...HaSatan doesn't influence you either way, he just presents you with the situation and watches to see whether you follow your Yetzer HaD A or you follow your Yetzer HaTov and then reports back to G-d what he has witnessed...
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:14 AM
 
Location: US
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Who Is Satan According to the Bible?


Satan (or the Devil) appears in both the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. Surprisingly, however, most of what people believe about Satan doesn't come from the Bible. For instance, the common image of Satan as a forked-tailed, horned demon with a goat's body from the waist down derives more from the Greek god Pan than anything biblical. What, then, does the Bible say about Satan?

The Hebrew name Satan (pronounced SA-tan) actually means "adversary," and most often in the Hebrew Bible it is prefaced by the direct object, meaning "the adversary" rather than a distinct personal name. Satan's role grows more developed both in scope and magnitude through time, and, thus, in the earlier writings of the Hebrew Bible, Satan exists not so much as an individual character but as an adversarial position occupied by both humans and angels.

For example, the word satan is used for a human potential adversary in the Philistine army (1 Samuel 29:4), and two kings God raise to be Solomon's adversaries (1 Kings 11:14, 23). An angel of the LORD is called satan when he blocks the path of Balaam (Numbers 22:22, 32). Satan becomes more developed as a character in later writings of the Hebrew Bible, though he appears only a few times. He at times causes humans to do bad things, as he incites King David to conduct a census (1 Chronicles 21:1).

Satan also acts as a heavenly prosecuting attorney, bringing charges against sinners before God's heavenly court. For example, in Psalm 109:6 the author asks Satan to bring an enemy to trial. Also in Zechariah 3:1-2, Satan stands at the right hand of an angel to bring charges against the High Priest. Satan has a similar role in the opening chapter of Job, where he appears in the heavenly court with the sons of God to bring charges against Job.

In the New Testament, Satan plays a much larger role. Here Satan, also frequently called the Devil (from Greek diabolos, also meaning "adversary") is a proper name for the one who opposes God. Satan is also identified in the New Testament with the deceitful serpent in Eden, as well as many other names including Belial, the evil one, the ruler of the demons, the enemy, the ruler of this world, and Beelzebul (Beelzebub, meaning "Lord of the flies," is a pun on the name Beelzebul, meaning "Prince Baal").

Many scholars attribute Satan's development from an adversary to the archenemy of God to the influence of the Persian religion Zoroastrianism. This religion is a lot like Star Wars, in which two opposing forces, one good and the other evil, struggle for control of the universe. Yet, the New Testament preserves the Hebrew Bible's notion of Satan as far inferior to God and needing to get God's permission before "raising hell" on earth (see, for example, Luke 22:31). Following the biblical period, Medieval theologians reinterpreted passages such as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, in which Babylonian and Phoenician kings are condemned for pride, as descriptions about Satan. In fact, the name Lucifer comes from a Latin translation of Isaiah 14:12, in which the Babylonian king is linked to a fallen Morning Star, called in Latin lucern ferre ("bearer of light"). - Who Is Satan According to the Bible? - For Dummies
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:23 AM
 
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N SHORT... For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that Gd is One and Indivisible will be rejected out of hand because it precludes true pure monotheism. The idea that there is a Gd in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or of hell, is not monotheism. It is, however, the same duality found in other pagan faiths. The Bible speaks of a character known as The Satan, who acts like a prosecuting attorney, or a district attorney, in Gd's court. However, The Satan has no power or authority in and of himself, rather he must get permission from the Judge, Gd, to do anything.

A MORE COMPLETE EXPLANATION...

For Jews, anything that even remotely conflicts with the idea that Gd is One and Indivisible will be rejected out of hand because it precludes true pure monotheism. The idea that there is a Gd in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or of hell, or a Good Gd who is in eternal opposition to an Evil Gd, is not monotheism. Other faiths had this same duality:

Greek: Zeus/Hades

Roman: Jupiter/Pluto

Norse: Odin/Loki

Mesopotamia: Marduk/Tiamat

Zoroastrian: Ahura Mazda/Angra Mainyu

Christian: Gd/Devil

This duality is expressed in the Christians' New Testament in two places. In Luke it states,

And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. [Luke 10:18]

And this is also found in Revelation:

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. [Revelation 12:9]

Gd in heaven, according to Christian theology, cast out the devil, where he became the master and tempter of human beings, fighting against Gd over human souls. Christians will refer to a passage which they misunderstand, claiming it shows this idea to be in the Jewish Scriptures, too. In Isaiah it states:

That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! The Etrnl hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of Gd: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [Isaiah 14:4-14]

Please note that the biblical text itself states that this is all about the King of Babylon, who had raised himself up to be like Gd -- another example of the pagan confusion between Gd and man. (Please see Essay #8, 'Gd does not become Human, and Humans do not become Gd.' The text also compares the King of Babylon to Lucifer, who fell from the sky. 'Lucifer' is Latin for 'light-bearer,' and is the name given to Venus, the Morning Star. This term, 'light-bearer,' is used exactly in this way in 2 Peter 1:19, without any association of it to the devil. The biblical text above from Isaiah is saying that the King of Babylon had achieved greatness as a ruler, but just like a falling star, he was brought low by Gd for his arrogance.

Now, of course, the Hebrew Scriptures tell of a character called The Satan. Every time the term is used in the Hebrew Scriptures, it reads, HaSaTaN, which means THE Satan. When the definite article, 'the,' is in front of a word it indicates a title, like 'the rabbi,' or 'the reverend.' So, in the Bible, the term 'HaSatan,' which means, 'The Satan,' is a title. The one with that title has a specific job, the same way it is used in speaking of 'the rabbi,' or of 'the reverend.'

The concept of The Satan, or the job description, is radically different from that of the devil. For Christians, who erroneously use the two terms as if they are synonymous, the devil has power and authority in and of himself. However, in the Bible, The Satan only has power granted by Gd, and has no authority in and of himself. For the devil to have power and authority is to have more than one Gd, as we saw above concerning the Greeks and the Romans.

The Satan is described in only a few places in the Hebrew Scriptures. In every instance, he is an angel who works FOR Gd, not against Gd, and must get permission from Gd for everything that he does. Chronicles, Job, Psalms, and Zechariah are the only places where The Satan is mentioned. In each instance, the job description of The Satan is to act like what we now call a Prosecuting Attorney, or District Attorney, and accuse and show evidence against the defendant. Furthermore, like a D.A., The Satan must obtain permission from Gd, the Judge, to begin a sting operation.

In the following quotation from the Book of Job, please take note of who is doing the talking, as The Satan asks Gd for permission to conduct a 'sting operation' against Job:

And the Etrnl said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth Gd, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. And Satan answered the Etrnl, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the Etrnl said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. [Job 2:3-6]

In the above verses, The Satan must get permission from Gd to perform this sting operation on Job. The Satan has no power or authority of his own, just like a District Attorney who must also obtain permission from The Judge for anything he does.

Furthermore, the biblical text paints this same picture of The Satan, when it uses the character of The Satan in what appears to be the end of a court scene. In the following two quotations, The Satan is standing near the accused like the D.A. stands at the end of a court drama on television. In the verses from Zechariah, Gd is siding with the defense against The Satan, on behalf of Joshua the high priest. Joshua had been sent into exile where he paid for his sins, and now purified like a brand plucked out of a fire, Gd allowed him to return to Jerusalem against the wishes of The Satan:

And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Etrnl, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the Etrnl said unto Satan, 'The Etrnl rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Etrnl that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?' [Zechariah 3:1-2]

Set thou a wicked man over him, and let Satan stand at his right hand. When he shall be judged, let him be condemned, and let his prayer become sin. [Psalm 109:6-7]

As we see from Psalm 109 above, the Satan again is like the District Attorney who prosecutes the wicked man.

In the Bible there is also a verse which show that it is Gd, the Creator and Ruler of the whole universe, who is responsible for both the Good and the Bad, and not a devil or Gd of the underworld:

I am the Etrnl, and there is none else, there is no Gd beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Etrnl, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Etrnl do all these things. [Isaiah 45:5-7]

For Gd, the Bible, and for Judaism, to have an entity that competes with Gd, that has power and authority of his own in opposition to Gd, is to violate the basic biblical idea of monotheism. Gd is One. - What Jews Believe: Essay #7: Satan Not Devil
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:37 AM
 
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6Now the day came about, and the angels of God came to stand beside the Lord, and the Adversary, too, came among them.


Rashi:

Now the day came about: That day which was Rosh Hashanah, (known as a day of sounding the shofar, and the Holy One, blessed be He, commanded the Adversary to bring the merit and the guilt of all creatures. This is the meaning of “from going to and fro on the earth.”)

and the angels of God came to stand beside the Lord: to contend with Him, because the expression of standing refers only to judgment, as it is stated (Isa. 3:13): “The Lord stands to plead.”

and the Adversary, too, came among them: to accuse the people.


7The Lord said to the Adversary, "Where are you coming from?" And the Adversary answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth and from walking in it."


Rashi:

“From going to and fro on the earth and from walking in it.”: So is my wont to go to and fro, to see the evil ones and the good ones. Now I went to and fro throughout the entire earth and I did not find anyone like Abraham, about whom it is said (Gen. 13:17): “Rise, go to and fro in the land.” The Sages of blessed memory (Baba Bathra 16a) said that the Adversary meant this for the sake of Heaven, in order that Abraham’s merit not be forgotten by our God.



8Now the Lord said to the Adversary, "Have you paid attention to My servant Job? For there is none like him on earth, a sincere and upright man, God-fearing and shunning evil."

Rashi:

Have you paid attention to My servant Job: that you should desire to denounce him?


9And the Adversary answered the Lord and said, "Does Job fear God for nothing?

Rashi:

“Does Job fear God for nothing?”: This is a question.
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