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Old 08-07-2016, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,958 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9911

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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepy View Post
god makes wise plans and by his power he performs them, is anything to hard for him?
It was too hard for him to give my late wife any relief from her unremitting pain, much less cure her of it, much less prevent her from contracting the rare illness in the first place. Too hard for him to give her back most of her adult life that was consumed by disease. Too hard to grant her wish to be a full participant in society, which, at the time, meant church. Too hard to prevent ongoing deterioration that ended up with her walking into walls thinking she was walking in a straight line. Too hard to answer the prayers of seasoned intercessors on her behalf.

Too hard to protect the childhood and stability of six orphans whose parents, friends of mine, were killed in a head on collision with a drunk driver (who survived).

Too hard to reward a hard working man and pillar of his church with a well earned retirement, or to cure him of the bone cancer that took his life, despite never having smoked, chewed, or went with girls that do.

Too hard to keep an 82 year old woman and devout follower safe, such that she died in a car accident.

To hard to prevent a godly pillar of the church from sawing two fingers off in a shop accident.

Too hard to prevent a young woman from going progressively mad with schizophrenia and passing on mental disorders to her children.

I can go on if you want. It's not too hard.

 
Old 08-07-2016, 12:23 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,914,670 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It was too hard for him to give my late wife any relief from her unremitting pain, much less cure her of it, much less prevent her from contracting the rare illness in the first place. Too hard for him to give her back most of her adult life that was consumed by disease. Too hard to grant her wish to be a full participant in society, which, at the time, meant church. Too hard to prevent ongoing deterioration that ended up with her walking into walls thinking she was walking in a straight line. Too hard to answer the prayers of seasoned intercessors on her behalf.

Too hard to protect the childhood and stability of six orphans whose parents, friends of mine, were killed in a head on collision with a drunk driver (who survived).

Too hard to reward a hard working man and pillar of his church with a well earned retirement, or to cure him of the bone cancer that took his life, despite never having smoked, chewed, or went with girls that do.

Too hard to keep an 82 year old woman and devout follower safe, such that she died in a car accident.

To hard to prevent a godly pillar of the church from sawing two fingers off in a shop accident.

Too hard to prevent a young woman from going progressively mad with schizophrenia and passing on mental disorders to her children.

I can go on if you want. It's not too hard.



You point the finger at the wrong place--The 3 rebels in Eden caused every bad thing to occur that ever has. God created mortals to know only good, to live forever, not aging, never sick or diseased--that is his will for Mortals. Upon the arrival of his kingdom it will come to be a reality again. God had to let it be proved once and for all time, otherwise it could occur over and over again. God promised a resurrection into his kingdom. This isn't the real life--Gods kingdom is the real life--All who desire to be apart of that kingdom --MUST- live now to do Gods will--then those will be reunited with lost loved ones.
If God interfered with free will-it wouldn't be free will. He wants us to choose to listen to him and love him. God is always correct in his choices. We may not understand them sometimes but God knows a gazillion x a gazillion x a gazillion more than any mortal. God loves us--he did not want this satan ruled system.
If one stands in opposition to God, then they are choosing satans side and will lose.
 
Old 08-07-2016, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Nanaimo, Canada
1,807 posts, read 1,890,971 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
You point the finger at the wrong place--The 3 rebels in Eden caused every bad thing to occur that ever has. God created mortals to know only good, to live forever, not aging, never sick or diseased--that is his will for Mortals. Upon the arrival of his kingdom it will come to be a reality again. God had to let it be proved once and for all time, otherwise it could occur over and over again. God promised a resurrection into his kingdom. This isn't the real life--Gods kingdom is the real life--All who desire to be apart of that kingdom --MUST- live now to do Gods will--then those will be reunited with lost loved ones.
If God interfered with free will-it wouldn't be free will. He wants us to choose to listen to him and love him. God is always correct in his choices. We may not understand them sometimes but God knows a gazillion x a gazillion x a gazillion more than any mortal. God loves us--he did not want this satan ruled system.
If one stands in opposition to God, then they are choosing satans side and will lose.
In other words, God doesn't care that His creations suffer and die, as long as He wins souls.
 
Old 08-08-2016, 01:52 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,914,670 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredNotBob View Post
In other words, God doesn't care that His creations suffer and die, as long as He wins souls.



Could you sacrifice your son? That is how much God loves us and so does Jesus. Yes God cares greatly but the issues raised against him must be resolved once and for all time so it can never occur again. It would have happened over and over--1/3 of the angels fell--one by one they would have kept this type system going--this is the best way--God knows exactly what he is doing. God--no other, is offering life everlasting in his kingdom to those who live now to do his will. Never aging like now, no sickness, diseases, hatred, greed, fear, pain, no war, starvation, etc, etc. That is what God wants for us. We can stand for God now, even if our understanding of what he is doing isn't quite accurate, but all who do love him, knows he knows exactly what had to be done.
 
Old 08-08-2016, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
7,058 posts, read 9,074,602 times
Reputation: 15634
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Never aging like now, no sickness, diseases, hatred, greed, fear, pain, no war, starvation, etc, etc. That is what God wants for us.
Oh, come on now. If there were a god, and that's what he/she/it wanted, he could have done it from the outset. Or, with the power you ascribe to such a being, could just do it now. What you say makes no sense.
 
Old 08-08-2016, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,958 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9911
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
You point the finger at the wrong place--The 3 rebels in Eden caused every bad thing to occur that ever has.
The thing at issue here is that god supposedly makes lavish and specific promises to his followers and then doesn't follow through on them. It's too hard. Because sin. Or some such lame excuse for a supposedly omnipotent being.

This only applies, of course, to those who claim that god is perfectly benevolent and good and promises to hear the cry of the righteous for deliverance. You perhaps don't make those claims, in which case, the critique would not apply.
 
Old 08-08-2016, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,958 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Oh, come on now. If there were a god, and that's what he/she/it wanted, he could have done it from the outset. Or, with the power you ascribe to such a being, could just do it now. What you say makes no sense.
I'm going easy on him (well, on Keepy, really) compared to you. I am allowing for the sake of argument that somehow god could want these things for us and yet can't or won't provide them until somewhere down the line when if feels right to him. All I've been questioning is why the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper about as often as the inverse.
 
Old 08-08-2016, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
7,058 posts, read 9,074,602 times
Reputation: 15634
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
All I've been questioning is why the righteous suffer and the wicked prosper about as often as the inverse.
That's an equally valid question. Like, little children, born disfigured, diseased, crippled, in constant pain...they know not good or evil, they have had no chance to 'sin', and yet they are punished and suffer. Why? What good reason is there to torture *them*?

That's not benevolence. It's cruelty, a sign of a sick and diseased mind to inflict such tortures on innocent babies...or to condone it. There is no excuse for such behavior, no justification.
 
Old 08-09-2016, 10:15 AM
 
Location: cote d'ivoire
351 posts, read 226,262 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
It was too hard for him to give my late wife any relief from her unremitting pain, much less cure her of it, much less prevent her from contracting the rare illness in the first place. Too hard for him to give her back most of her adult life that was consumed by disease. Too hard to grant her wish to be a full participant in society, which, at the time, meant church. Too hard to prevent ongoing deterioration that ended up with her walking into walls thinking she was walking in a straight line. Too hard to answer the prayers of seasoned intercessors on her behalf.

Too hard to protect the childhood and stability of six orphans whose parents, friends of mine, were killed in a head on collision with a drunk driver (who survived).

Too hard to reward a hard working man and pillar of his church with a well earned retirement, or to cure him of the bone cancer that took his life, despite never having smoked, chewed, or went with girls that do.

Too hard to keep an 82 year old woman and devout follower safe, such that she died in a car accident.

To hard to prevent a godly pillar of the church from sawing two fingers off in a shop accident.

Too hard to prevent a young woman from going progressively mad with schizophrenia and passing on mental disorders to her children.

I can go on if you want. It's not too hard.
reently you repented and did right, as part of the Agreement? you deceided to obey and do the right thing. who has not performed the word of the covenant, which passed between the parts of the calf. shall be iven into the hands of his enemies.
 
Old 08-09-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: cote d'ivoire
351 posts, read 226,262 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
That's an equally valid question. Like, little children, born disfigured, diseased, crippled, in constant pain...they know not good or evil, they have had no chance to 'sin', and yet they are punished and suffer. Why? What good reason is there to torture *them*?

That's not benevolence. It's cruelty, a sign of a sick and diseased mind to inflict such tortures on innocent babies...or to condone it. There is no excuse for such behavior, no justification.
parents ate sour wine and the children get the sour tast. instead, each person will die for his own sin.
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