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So your claim is that Jesus was not crucified, but somebody who looked like him. Then the real Jesus strolled in and then was taken up into heaven.
Hmm.. It's interesting that Bible -debunkers have claimed that Jesus escaped crucifixion because a twin (Ddymus) took his place. (Buggered if I would no matter how much I looked like him) and we can presumably dismiss the exhibition of the holes in hands and feel by the real Jesus as a pack of lies, eh? Well, I think the resurrection appearance are a pack of lies, too.
Well, I'm happy with that. I'm not going to argue with you about that one.
I hope that you do not argue about he flew off up into the sky .
not crucified was mentioned in The Holy Quran. but the Quran also confirm the flew off up into the sky .
and most the evidences I have are from the Quran its self
by highlighting the verses that mention or hint or point to knowledge could not be known at that time by any human being such as this knowledge
The Quran mentioned in this lowest place a battle took place between romans and Persians
Last edited by truth_teller; 08-07-2017 at 04:56 AM..
How is it inconceivable that people in those days did not know the dead sea was below sea level? People those days knew the earth was a sphere. The diameter of the earth was calculated some time before 194 BC. By a man named Eratosthenes.
How is it inconceivable that people in those days did not know the dead sea was below sea level? People those days knew the earth was a sphere. The diameter of the earth was calculated some time before 194 BC. By a man named Eratosthenes.
so you think it was known that the dead sea is the lowest area in earth in more than 1400 years
at least I am giving evidences .
in the dead sea area The Romans was defeated by the Persians in about 1400 years ago.
and this place is the Lowest Place On Earth.
and the Quran mentioned that it is the Lowest Place On Earth in the following verse.
Alif, Lam, Mim.
The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land.......................The Holy Quran. 30.1:3
thrillobyte started a string entitled "A Challenge for Christians: Show Us Your Very Best Proof For Jesus." That string was restricted to extra-Biblical evidence on the existence of Jesus however. So I began this string with no restrictions at all. You Christians who genuinely believe that Jesus was not only actually resurrected from the dead, but that he subsequently flew off up into the sky, please provide your best evidence and rationale for believing that to be true. And for those of you who consider this to be a trap, of course I intend to rebut your claims. But if your claims are valid, my efforts to rebut them will not only be useless, they will be obviously useless. So how can you lose? The only thing you have to fear, perhaps, is discovering that your reasons for believing that Jesus was resurrected from the dead were nothing but empty claims and baseless assertions all along. If your beliefs are nonsense, you would like to know that. Wouldn't you? Or is it a fact that you prefer to continue believing a comforting lie then to know the truth?
Simply establish that believing that Jesus was resurrected from the dead is a reasonable thing to believe. That's all I am asking for.
Christians are not told to provide evidence. They live by faith.
To provide "evidence" for God is an earthly concept being applied to a supernatural spiritual occurance.
I hope that you do not argue about he flew off up into the sky .
not crucified was mentioned in The Holy Quran. but the Quran also confirm the flew off up into the sky .
and most the evidences I have are from the Quran its self
by highlighting the verses that mention or hint or point to knowledge could not be known at that time by any human being such as this knowledge
The Quran mentioned in this lowest place a battle took place between romans and Persians
(1) I am quite sure Jesus did not fly off into the sky. Matthew and John both say he went to Galilee. Luke, who alters the angel's message so the disciples are not told to go to Galilee, is the only one to have ascending onto a cloud. All the resurrection accounts are fabricated (I gather you reject them, too) so it follows that Luke's flying off into the sky is also not reliable. If It's in the Quran as a fact, that is also not reliable.
(2) If (as I strongly suspect) the Quran was written some time after the events it refers to (battles of 624 /4 AD,the battle in the low place would be history, not prediction.
so you think it was known that the dead sea is the lowest area in earth in more than 1400 years
at least I am giving evidences .
in the dead sea area The Romans was defeated by the Persians in about 1400 years ago.
and this place is the Lowest Place On Earth.
and the Quran mentioned that it is the Lowest Place On Earth in the following verse.
Alif, Lam, Mim.
The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land.......................The Holy Quran. 30.1:3
...but it doesn't say in the lowest land does it? It says...
The Roman Empire has been defeated-30.3
YUSUFALI: In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious-
PICKTHAL: In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious
SHAKIR: In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome,
Please read:
The discerning reader should be able to see that Q. 30:2-4 is laden with problems which the text does not provide solutions for. In fact, this so-called prediction furnishes a great example of just how incoherent, incomplete and unintelligible the Quran truly is. For instance, the citation raises the following issues:
The prophecy states that the Romans have been defeated in a land close by, but doesn’t bother to identify the precise location of this land.
The obvious question is close to what exactly? Does this mean close to the place of Muslims, i.e. near Mecca or Medina? Or does this mean near the Roman capital? Or is it supposed to be close to Persia?
Is it supposed to be near Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, India, China, Spain etc.?
The reference also fails to mention the name of the people or nation that supposedly defeated the Romans. Actually, the people by whom they were defeated and whom they would be victorious over don’t necessarily have to be the same. The Quran fails to state by whom they were first defeated and over which nation they will be victorious a few years later. E.g., it is certainly possible to say: The Romans who have just been defeated by the Egyptians will soon be victorious over the Persians.
As if this weren’t bad enough the so-called prophecy doesn’t even bother mentioning either the date of composition, i.e. whether the Sura is Meccan or Medinan in origin, or the time of the Roman defeat. Such details are vitally important in determining whether the Romans were able to vanquish their foes within the allotted time period stipulated by the Quran.
In light of the foregoing, how did Abdallah know that this passage was referring to the Dead Sea when it never mentions the name of the land? How does he even know when this section was supposedly "sent down"? He doesn’t know since the Quran doesn’t answer any of these questions. Abdallah has simply read all of these assertions into the text of the Quran in order to make it agree with modern scientific discoveries.
Quite so, Raffs. I know that there are some objections to the reading of this but I tend to avoid translation -wrangles. My own "retrospective prophecy' idea is not the usual objection, since yhe idea that the Quran dated to Muhammad's time is generally accepted. Anyhow, there are a couple of reasons why this passage does not prove the Quran the word of God.
Cue moving mountains and the pulsar. Scrap the flys' wing cure and the salt and fresh water not mixing. They have already been debunked. So have the moving mountains and the Pulsar. Not only is the knocking nothing to do with radio astronomy, but the pulsar only 'kniocks' is you put thr radio signal through a speaker.
There is the arguable joints of the bones, which is about right, through the number of joints actually changes as the skeleton grows, but it's about right. Not rocket science for a people used to meticulously dissecting their opponents.
So far as I know, those are all the "Proofs" they got.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-08-2017 at 04:57 AM..
The question is rather, what can be done further if Jesus is truly resurrected? Make a video tape?
big "if' you got there.
In engineering we have to define that a variable(s) you got there. we have to put what we do know in for that "if".
we haven't seen one person come back to life. as taught. we have seen many traditions that account for people "coming back to life when we thought they were dead". Like "wakes'.
that is the 'if" ... no If, and, or butts about it.
so the real question is 'what do we do next?"
maybe, the next right thing, to the best of our ability?
like changing a statement of belief to line up with knowledge statements?
(1) I am quite sure Jesus did not fly off into the sky..
I am very very and very sure Jesus did fly off into the sky and may be by Allah will and then by getting convinced in agreeing about one of the miracles in the Quran.
.
Quote:
(2) If (as I strongly suspect) the Quran was written some time after the events it refers to (battles of 624 /4 AD,the battle in the low place would be history, not prediction.
If, as I suugest, the Quran was commissioned by Uthman, the book pst-dates the events.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) appointed a group of his companions who were trustworthy and knowledgeable to write down the revelation.
They are..... https://islamqa.info/en/10012
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