A Challenge for Christians: Show us your best evidence for believing that Jesus was resurrected (worship, quote)

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by Rafius

...but it doesn't say in the lowest land does it? It says...


The Roman Empire has been defeated-30.3
YUSUFALI: In a land close by; but they, (even) after (this) defeat of theirs, will soon be victorious-
PICKTHAL: In the nearer land, and they, after their defeat will be victorious
SHAKIR: In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome,


Please read:

The discerning reader should be able to see that Q. 30:2-4 is laden with problems which the text does not provide solutions for. In fact, this so-called prediction furnishes a great example of just how incoherent, incomplete and unintelligible the Quran truly is.
For instance, the citation raises the following issues:

• The prophecy states that the Romans have been defeated in a land close by, but doesn’t bother to identify the precise location of this land.
• The obvious question is close to what exactly? Does this mean close to the place of Muslims, i.e. near Mecca or Medina? Or does this mean near the Roman capital? Or is it supposed to be close to Persia?
• Is it supposed to be near Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, India, China, Spain etc.?
• The reference also fails to mention the name of the people or nation that supposedly defeated the Romans. Actually, the people by whom they were defeated and whom they would be victorious over don’t necessarily have to be the same. The Quran fails to state by whom they were first defeated and over which nation they will be victorious a few years later. E.g., it is certainly possible to say: The Romans who have just been defeated by the Egyptians will soon be victorious over the Persians.
• As if this weren’t bad enough the so-called prophecy doesn’t even bother mentioning either the date of composition, i.e. whether the Sura is Meccan or Medinan in origin, or the time of the Roman defeat. Such details are vitally important in determining whether the Romans were able to vanquish their foes within the allotted time period stipulated by the Quran.

In light of the foregoing, how did Abdallah know that this passage was referring to the Dead Sea when it never mentions the name of the land? How does he even know when this section was supposedly "sent down"? He doesn’t know since the Quran doesn’t answer any of these questions. Abdallah has simply read all of these assertions into the text of the Quran in order to make it agree with modern scientific discoveries.

Miraculous scientific knowledge in the Qur'an: Dead Sea is lowest point on the earth!

there are many words can have Multiple Meanings such as date which can be fruit or romance

and leaves can be gone or that in the tree and can can be a can

similarly with Arabic word that used in the that verse , it has more than one meaning and of them low

The Arabic word used is أدنى

if you translate it you will see many meaning and one of them is low or lower

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

if you translate it you will see many meaning and one of them is low or lower

One of them may be low and one of them may be near. The problem is that you choose 'low' rather than 'near' because 'low suits your confirmation bias. It's what theists do all the time when it comes to 'translation'. What you have to do is show verifiable evidence that, in this case, it means low and not near.

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by Rafius

One of them may be low and one of them may be near. The problem is that you choose 'low' rather than 'near' because 'low suits your confirmation bias. It's what theists do all the time when it comes to 'translation'. What you have to do is show verifiable evidence that, in this case, it means low and not near.

The location of the battle support the meaning low but still Allah Alone know the real meaning

but there is another miracle in these verses that is correct 100% which is telling that the roman will win in a period of three to nine years from the time these verses descending from Allah and that happened exactly.

Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].
The Romans have been defeated.
In the nearest land (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine),
and they, after their defeat, will be victorious.
Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after
(these events) is only with Allah, (before the defeat of the Romans by the Persians, and after the defeat of the Persians by the Romans).
And on that Day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allah to the Romans against the Persians) Thr Holy Quran.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ikfvWUCDOc#t=740

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

The location of the battle support the meaning low but still Allah Alone know the real meaning

Well we'll wait for him to tell us then shall we?

...but there is another miracle in these verses that is correct 100% which is telling that the roman will win in a period of three to nine years from the time these verses descending from Allah and that happened exactly.

Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].
The Romans have been defeated.
In the nearest land (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine),
and they, after their defeat, will be victorious.
Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after
(these events) is only with Allah, (before the defeat of the Romans by the Persians, and after the defeat of the Persians by the Romans).
And on that Day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allah to the Romans against the Persians) Thr Holy Quran.

Bull hockey!

...and look! Even the verse you are quoting says NEAREST and not LOWEST! Aaaaaaahahahaha!

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by Rafius

Bull hockey!
...and look! Even the verse you are quoting says NEAREST and not LOWEST! Aaaaaaahahahaha!

I did not deny that and I said The Arabic word أدنى
if you translate it you will see many meaning and one of them is low or lower

and you are making a fake victory and you completely ignored the second
direct miracle that is in the verses and that has no other meaning except one and it was accurate 100%

Byzantine had been so heavily defeated that it seemed impossible for the Empire to even maintain its very existence,
let alone be victorious again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=majCiv0x3Fs

Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear?
For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind.
And they will bid thee hasten on the Doom, and Allah faileth not His promise,
but lo! a Day with Allah is as a thousand years of what ye reckon. The Holy Quran.

[TRANSPONDER]

You see, Raffs what happens when you you apply the mistranslation argument? Mind, you were right to do so, but I prefer to use the retrospective prophecy argument. Of course Truth teller can reject it, but that doesn't matter as he is trying to convince me, I am not trying to convince him.

But all this is only tangental to believing Gospel Jesus because it is more about proving the Quran true so what it says about Jesus must be taken as true.

For me, it is more that not only do the gospels debunk the Quran, but the debunk of the gospels debunks the Quran where it agrees with the gospels.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, when the Bible goes down the tube, it lakes all the other religions of the book with it.

[truth_teller]

in this modern time if you ask any educated person not specialized in the field of human development inside
the womb regarding how the baby is developed in the womb he will not know the answer unless he do some research let alone if you ask a desert man 1400 years ago about such thing

but because the Quran is from Allah it has a knowledge about it in these verses

"Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh,
then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones,
then We clothed the bones with flesh,
then We caused it to grow into another creation,
so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. " Holy Quran 23:14

Professor Keith Moore who is specialized in this field gave his statement regarding the above verse and said

"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development.
It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah,
because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later.
This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah."

Jesus was resurrected because the Quran mentioned that and the above is another strong evidence for those who have hearts not blind.

[TRANSPONDER]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

in this modern time if you ask any educated person not specialized in the field of human development inside
the womb regarding how the baby is developed in the womb he will not know the answer unless he do some research let alone if you ask a desert man 1400 years ago about such thing

but because the Quran is from Allah it has a knowledge about it in these verses

"Then We made the seed a clot,
then We made the clot a lump of flesh,
then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones,
then We clothed the bones with flesh,
then We caused it to grow into another creation,
so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators. " Holy Quran 23:14

Professor Keith Moore who is specialized in this field gave his statement regarding the above verse and said

"It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Qur'an about human development.
It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, or Allah,
because most of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later.
This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God, or Allah."

Jesus was resurrected because the Quran mentioned that and the above is another strong evidence for those who have hearts not blind.

Embryology
Main Article: Embryology in the Qur'an

The Qur'an and Hadith contain statements about bodily fluids and the stages of development of the human embryo. Many of these descriptions are vague and unscientific. Most bear a striking resemblance to similar descriptions found in the Jewish Talmud and the ideas of ancient Greeks such as Galen, including their errors.
Sperm Originates Between the Backbone and Ribs
Main Article: Qur'an and Semen Production

The Qur'an states, incorrectly, that semen originates from a spot between the backbone and ribs. Today we know sperm comes from the testicles and semen from various glands behind and below the bladder, which is not between the spine and ribs.
He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs
Qur'an 86:6-7
Embryo is Initially Formed from Semen
Main Article: Greek and Jewish Ideas about Reproduction in the Quran and Hadith

The author of the Qur'an describes the initial formation of a human embryo out of fluid emanating from the man (and possibly also of the woman), which is stored in the womb. This reflects the contemporary, but incorrect, view that the material for the embryo is initially formed out of semen, as taught by Hippocrates, Galen, and the Jewish Talmud. In fact, semen is the vehicle for the sperm cells, one of which fuses with a woman's ovum in her fallopian tube, and the resulting cell divides and travels back into the womb for implantation.

While English translations mention a "drop of seed", or "drop of sperm", the Arabic word in question is nutfah, which literally means a small amount of liquid, a euphemism for semen.
Did We not create you from a liquid disdained? And We placed it in a firm lodging For a known extent.
Qur'an 77:20-22
Then placed him as a drop (of seed) [nutfah] in a safe lodging;
Qur'an 23:13
From what thing doth He create him? From a drop of seed [nutfah]. He createth him and proportioneth him
Qur'an 80:18-19
Indeed, We created man from a sperm-drop mixture [nutfatin amshajin] that We may try him; and We made him hearing and seeing.
Qur'an 76:2
No Mention of Female Ovum

The Qur'an's author did not mention the role of the ovum in human reproduction and appears to have no knowledge of it. This verse fails to mention the important role of the female egg, or ovum, plays in the reproduction of humankind. It implies that reproduction is caused simply by the male semen. The human ovum is very small, though visible to the human eye, and it's purpose wasn't understood in the 7th century. Again, we are left wondering why an all-knowing deity would omit such information.
He is created from a drop emitted
Qur'an 86:6
Humans Created from a Clot of Blood
Main Article: Embryology in the Qur'an

The Qur'an and Hadith depict that humans are formed from a clot of blood. There was never a stage in embryonic development where humans are formed into a clot of blood. This description is likely influenced by an unscientific and primitive understanding of human reproduction based on observations from an early-term miscarriage and a woman's menstrual cycle. While in modern times some Muslims seek to use alternative meanings for the relevant word, the mere fact that it certainly can mean clotted blood (as also is the consensus of the classical tafsirs), in a passage about a biological process (formation of a baby), is a major weakness in what should be a perfect description.
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
Qur'an 96:2
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud: “Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period.”
Sahih Bukhari 4:54:430
Gender of a Baby is Decided After it Becomes a Clot

The Qur'an says that an embryo is transformed from a sperm to a clot, then it is shaped, and then the male or female sex is determined. Modern genetics has shown that the sex of a human is decided at the moment of conception.[1]
Was he not a drop of fluid which gushed forth? Then he became a clot; then (Allah) shaped and fashioned And made of him a pair, the male and female.
Qur'an 75:37-39

While translators mostly use "And" in verse 39, the Arabic word is fa, as also in the previous conjunction, which indicates sequence (i.e. 'and then'). The tafsirs also take this view, and it is very much reflected in a sahih hadith found in Bukhari and Muslim:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "At every womb Allah appoints an angel who says, 'O Lord! A drop of semen, O Lord! A clot. O Lord! A little lump of flesh." Then if Allah wishes (to complete) its creation, the angel asks, (O Lord!) Will it be a male or female, a wretched or a blessed, and how much will his provision be? And what will his age be?' So all that is written while the child is still in the mother's womb."
Sahih Bukhari 1:6:315
Bones are Formed before Flesh
Main Article: Embryology in the Qur'an

The Qur'an explains that the bones of a human embryo are formed first and then covered up with flesh. Modern scientific studies and research have shown that the cartilage models and muscles start to form at the same time and in parallel. Muscles have started to form before the cartilage models start to be replaced with bone.
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones then (not and) clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
Qur'an 23:14

The Qur'an again parallels the influential Greek physician Galen, who says:
And now the third period of gestation has come. After nature has made outlines of all the organs and the substance of the semen is used up, the time has come for nature to articulate the organs precisely and to bring all the parts to completion. Thus it caused flesh to grow on and around all the bones...
Galen, On semen, p.101
All Organisms are Created in Pairs
Main Article: Qur'anic Claim of Everything Created in Pairs

Not every creature procreates or reproduces through male and female sexual relationship. The whiptail lizard in the U.S. Southwest, Mexico, and South America, is an all-females species which reproduces by parthenogenesis. Viruses reproduce using a host's DNA and are neither female nor male. Bacteria reproduce by cell division. Fungus can reproduce either sexually or asexually. Many species of plants also reproduce either asexually or through pollination.
And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
Qur'an 51:49
Glory to Allah, Who created in pairs all things that the earth produces, as well as their own (human) kind and (other) things of which they have no knowledge.
Qur'an 36:36
Fetus is in Three Layers of darkness

The word butun (بطن) means belly/abdomen/midriff, though some translators like to use the more specific word "womb". Tafsirs interpreted the "three darknesses" as the placenta, womb (uterus) and belly. There are in fact many more layers in the human body such as the endometrium, myometrium, perimetrium, peritoneum, besides the cervix uteri, corpus uteri, abdomen (with walls), and placenta (with layers). The idea of three membranes around the fetus (chorion, allantois, and amnion) was taught by the highly influential Greek physician, Galen. Perhaps the Qur'anic author is simply repeating this idea, which applies only to the embryonic membranes.

The allantois is a sac-like structure which becomes part of the umbilical cord, hardly a 'a darkness' for the embryo. The other two membranes, the chorion and amnion, together form the amniotic sac, which is quite thin and transparent.
He created you from one soul. Then He made from it its mate, and He produced for you from the grazing livestock eight mates. He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation, within three darknesses. That is Allah, your Lord; to Him belongs dominion. There is no deity except Him, so how are you averted?
Qur'an 39:6
Functions of the Heart

In several verses, the Qur'an ascribes understanding and thinking to the heart instead of the brain.
And We place upon their hearts veils lest they should understand it, and in their ears a deafness; and when thou makest mention of thy Lord alone in the Qur'an, they turn their backs in aversion.
Qur'an 17:46
Lo! now they fold up their breasts that they may hide (their thoughts) from Him. At the very moment when they cover themselves with their clothing, Allah knoweth that which they keep hidden and that which they proclaim. Lo! He is Aware of what is in the breasts (of men).
Qur'an 11:5
Source and Purity of Milk
Main Article: Qur'an and Milk

The Qur'an states that milk is produced, in the body, somewhere between excretions and blood. The mammary glands, where milk is produced and stored, are nowhere near the intestines which is where excrement is stored. Many kinds of cattle and goat milk needs processing or pasteurization before they can safely be consumed; the milk is often infected with bacteria and other micro-organisms. A significant number of humans are lactose intolerant and unable to digest milk without experiencing abdominal bloating and cramps, flatulence, diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. This makes the Qur'anic claim that milk is 'pure' and 'agreeable' to those who drink it dubious.
And verily in cattle (too) will ye find an instructive sign. From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood, We produce, for your drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it.

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientifi...s_in_the_Quran


There are more scientific errors in the Quran for anyone who is willing to spend 10 minutes at the computer.

The Quran is not the word of God, The Quran is not a reliable document, and what it says about Jesus, God or the Bible is not to be given any credibility.

I'm sorry, old chum, but what you have as evidence is nothing like good enough, and what the critical side has looks terminal.

[truth_teller]

Originally Posted by truth_teller

...Jesus was resurrected... .

correction
Jesus was not resurrected

The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessing of Allah be upon him said:

There is no prophet between me and him, that is,
jesus (peace_be_upon_him).
He will descent (to the earth).
When you see him, recognise him:
a man of medium height,
reddish fair,
wearing two light yellow garments,
looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet.
He will fight the people for the cause of Islam.
He will break the cross,
kill swine, and abolish jizyah.
Allah will perish all religions except Islam.
He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die.
The Muslims will pray over him.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes, we know that the Islamic claim is that Jesus was not resurrected. The Gospel claim is that he was. Since your efforts to show the Quran is trustworthy in verifiable science have failed, since we can't trust it in verifiable matters, why should we trust it in supernatural claims?

Why, that is, should we believe what the Quran says?