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There is a distinct group of marginalized people, the original inhabitants of a country, who have suffered great abuse, loss of their culture and language and land--and their CHILDREN, by those who came from other parts of the world and took away their freedom. This abuse was carried out in a joint effort by a government along with several religious organizations, the largest of which was the Catholic Church.
The stories from the survivors are heartbreaking. One older woman told of how she never even learned her tribal language as a child. Her parents deliberately did not teach her because they knew that she would be sent to the residential school when she was old enough and were aware that if she was heard speaking her native language, she would be beaten, so they withheld the knowledge to protect her.
The head of the church responsible for this behavior made the arduous trip in very poor health to see these people and say that what was done to them was wrong and that the church would make steps to do what they could, even though the damage that was done can obviously not be repaired. It wasn't just some scheduled Pope visit to have his fans wave to him. It is something that these marginalized, abused people have been waiting to hear for generations, and no, not all accept the apology. The hurt is too deep. But it was a great step toward healing. That's not the same as some imam or acharya just coming to visit a country on a goodwill tour.
I'm somewhat puzzled why you resist seeing the importance of this.
I know the history behind the abuse of children but thanks for sharing it. That is not news to me, pun intended.
If the Pope offered some serious reparation for the indigenous people who were so wronged that would be news. Anyway I don't want to derail topic any more.
There is a distinct group of marginalized people, the original inhabitants of a country, who have suffered great abuse, loss of their culture and language and land--and their CHILDREN, by those who came from other parts of the world and took away their freedom. This abuse was carried out in a joint effort by a government along with several religious organizations, the largest of which was the Catholic Church.
The stories from the survivors are heartbreaking. One older woman told of how she never even learned her tribal language as a child. Her parents deliberately did not teach her because they knew that she would be sent to the residential school when she was old enough and were aware that if she was heard speaking her native language, she would be beaten, so they withheld the knowledge to protect her.
The head of the church responsible for this behavior made the arduous trip in very poor health to see these people and say that what was done to them was wrong and that the church would make steps to do what they could, even though the damage that was done can obviously not be repaired. It wasn't just some scheduled Pope visit to have his fans wave to him. It is something that these marginalized, abused people have been waiting to hear for generations, and no, not all accept the apology. The hurt is too deep. But it was a great step toward healing. That's not the same as some imam or acharya just coming to visit a country on a goodwill tour.
I'm somewhat puzzled why you resist seeing the importance of this.
It was a ethnicity (English--European) that did it...did it all.
Funny that many like to talk about how secular they were...and how secular they made the government.
Until it comes to things like this...then it was their Religion that motivated them to do all those evil things.
I understand what is considered news. I am only expressing my opinion that I do not consider a religious leader visiting is news, because it is a non-event that does not effect change in any way to the world. Sports actually does, effect change and breaks new ground. It matters. The Lionesses, enough said. News has become indistinguishable from entertainment, delivered with a lot of shouting, "breaking news" all the time. I much prefer to read, even day old newspaper or news magazines, slowly, in my own "Other Voice" voice in the head. Just my opinion, you are free to disagree.
Jon Stewart, whom I love and respect, has a great show on media and how it sells news. Worth watching. That of course has noting to do with the Pope's visit. Anyway we are off topic.
The Residential School Scandal is probably the biggest story in Canada this past year or so. And the visit and apology from the leader of the largest religion involved in this scandal is indeed from page News and definitely the opposite of entertainment. It may end up defining the nature of the relationship between indigenous and non indigenous people of this country. And directly speaks to the past and present racism in Canada. Maybe not knowing or not caring what happens in certain countries blinds you appreciation for this important and long overdue occasion and by putting it front and centre of the news it can no longer be ignored not can the horrific mistreatment that occurred in my country. It will spill over into the political and economic fabric of this nation as well as cause us to address many issues that have been ignored for too long. What the Pope has had to do to address the wrongs of the past will aid in addressing racism against the First Nations people hence his visit is not just need but very important news and even though I am not Catholic not native I am very pleased with both his visit and the attention but has drawn and help find the hundreds if not thousands of unmarked graves of indigenous children and ing some form of justice and closure needed.
The Residential School Scandal is probably the biggest story in Canada this past year or so. And the visit and apology from the leader of the largest religion involved in this scandal is indeed from page News and definitely the opposite of entertainment. It may end up defining the nature of the relationship between indigenous and non indigenous people of this country. And directly speaks to the past and present racism in Canada. Maybe not knowing or not caring what happens in certain countries blinds you appreciation for this important and long overdue occasion and by putting it front and centre of the news it can no longer be ignored not can the horrific mistreatment that occurred in my country. It will spill over into the political and economic fabric of this nation as well as cause us to address many issues that have been ignored for too long. What the Pope has had to do to address the wrongs of the past will aid in addressing racism against the First Nations people hence his visit is not just need but very important news and even though I am not Catholic not native I am very pleased with both his visit and the attention but has drawn and help find the hundreds if not thousands of unmarked graves of indigenous children and ing some form of justice and closure needed.
In fairness, badlander, people in the States have not been seeing news related to the residential schools and the discovery of the graves on TV for the past year or so, nor do they relate to it. This was so serious that last year people were keeping the Canada Day celebrations low-key because so many people felt the shame of this blot on their country's history with the discover of the extent of the children's graves.
While I know that Canada isn't all of one mindset and without its own set of differences and conflicts, there is most definitely a very noticeable difference up here compared to the USA when it comes to the concept of being one country and the need to stand together despite those differences. The USA has much more of a me-first/us vs. them mindset within itself than Canada does. Possibly because of a smaller population?
Anyway, cb is right, this whole conversation has wandered off topic.
It was a ethnicity (English--European) that did it...did it all.
Funny that many like to talk about how secular they were...and how secular they made the government.
Until it comes to things like this...then it was their Religion that motivated them to do all those evil things.
No, that's not quite true. I agree that it was an ethnicity that thought itself superior, but what is disturbing is that it was a religion that is supposed to stand for the very opposite of what was done to those children that took the reins to conduct the abuse and cause the deaths, particular since they used the religion to justify their actions. Not enough people in the religion said, "This is wrong, we have to to stop this," although I do believe there were some who did speak out.
But again, although I do not qualify as an atheist, at least not yet, this can answer the topic question. This might be one reason why skeptics and atheists post here. They see a horror like this and ask how it happens. Hell, believers see a horror like this and ask how it happened.
In fairness, badlander, people in the States have not been seeing news related to the residential schools and the discovery of the graves on TV for the past year or so, nor do they relate to it. This was so serious that last year people were keeping the Canada Day celebrations low-key because so many people felt the shame of this blot on their country's history with the discover of the extent of the children's graves.
While I know that Canada isn't all of one mindset and without its own set of differences and conflicts, there is most definitely a very noticeable difference up here compared to the USA when it comes to the concept of being one country and the need to stand together despite those differences. The USA has much more of a me-first/us vs. them mindset within itself than Canada does. Possibly because of a smaller population?
Anyway, cb is right, this whole conversation has wandered off topic.
Perhaps it has gone off topic but on topic is that religion and religious thoughts affect our everyday lives regardless if we have a religion or not.
No, that's not quite true. I agree that it was an ethnicity that thought itself superior, but what is disturbing is that it was a religion that is supposed to stand for the very opposite of what was done to those children that took the reins to conduct the abuse and cause the deaths, particular since they used the religion to justify their actions. Not enough people in the religion said, "This is wrong, we have to to stop this," although I do believe there were some who did speak out.
But again, although I do not qualify as an atheist, at least not yet, this can answer the topic question. This might be one reason why skeptics and atheists post here. They see a horror like this and ask how it happens. Hell, believers see a horror like this and ask how it happened.
No, no...many on here argue blue-in-the-face about how secular those people were, and how they made a completely secular Government...and I am wrong and "deluded" and "dishonest" to claim that they were very motivated by Theology.
I can link a bunch of exchanges if you want proof of how adamant they all were/are about those people supposedly leaving Religion completely "separate" from anything they did. Actually piling on against me for saying that they were heavily Religion motivated.
Now, all of a sudden...Religion motivated them.
No, that's not quite true. I agree that it was an ethnicity that thought itself superior, but what is disturbing is that it was a religion that is supposed to stand for the very opposite of what was done to those children that took the reins to conduct the abuse and cause the deaths, particular since they used the religion to justify their actions. Not enough people in the religion said, "This is wrong, we have to to stop this," although I do believe there were some who did speak out.
But again, although I do not qualify as an atheist, at least not yet, this can answer the topic question. This might be one reason why skeptics and atheists post here. They see a horror like this and ask how it happens. Hell, believers see a horror like this and ask how it happened.
When horrors like this happen actors on both sides use religion to justify their actions. Closer to home those who opposed slavery besides the enslaved themselves, based their belief to abolish on the same religion that others used to not only preserve it but to make laws that promote the rights of slave holders and to expand slavery. All the whitepeople read from the same book to justify evil and also to abolish it and died for their beliefs. A common thread that connects all religions is the exhortation do good, do the right thing. They say all that because doing good is hard. Knowing what is good is harder. What people read into it and how they act is not religion, it is their "inner voice".
You’re so wrapped in (your own) forum standard as to how you express what is ‘valid’ (and usually not) in your eyes, you have a tendency to attach a ‘claim’ (and want to argue) every minor point - even though I, too, am an atheist. As a result, you miss the bigger picture (relative to basic human rights, opinion and theists’ ‘faith’ as well). It’s logical/necessary to promote atheism and equality as opposed to fighting individuality or one’s own demons. Hence my point, it becomes about the defense of one’s ego (or personal anger) far more than it is relative to the recognition atheism deserves. Obviously.
You honestly believe your intention is to stop the spread of hatred, particularly relative to this thread? Or that you’re somehow improving our image (atheists) as a result of your posts? Come on, lol.
I side with Harry. I like the way he disputes points one at a time.
Are you new here? I have forgotten. There was a former member who claimed to be an atheist, but mostly only argued with atheists.
Yes, because you PRESUME your reality is the true one and theirs is not despite the undeniable fact that we do not have the faintest idea what the hell our Reality actually IS!!! You pretend we KNOW which can be worse than being wrong in some ways. We know enough to operate pragmatically using the user interface presented to us, but that does NOT mean we know what Reality is.
Do you not presume your reality is the true one?
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