Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Indeed. But you do not resolve problems like creationism (or football hooliganism) by pointing out most religious people are not creationists (or most football fans are not hooligans). But some religious people want to deflect to the good things, allowing the bad to continue doing instead of using the power of religion to do the good it is capable of.
One has to believe in what the religion teaches to believe in the power it has. What is the power do you, as an Atheist, think exists in religion? That is a surprising statement.
But yes, I believe most wars, even those seemingly under the guise of religion, are primarily about power and greed. Selling them in the name of the people's god(s) makes them more palatable.
I think there are two separate things working here.
First, while war is hell, I do think there are necessary wars. And I think what Hitler and the Japanese were doing fully justified, and even necessitated that war. And in a case like that, I don't think its necessarily inappropriate for religious leaders to support a war. How can you not take action against something that includes the Holocaust?
What I object to is this seemingly eternal concept that god blesses the United States in all it does, and how religion often seems to accept and condone...and even lead...that thinking.
I think by doing right by the living. If the Pope’s visit is news, and if he is believed to have direct lineage to Jesus (which stresses the imagination since we are talking about celibates) then his actions and words should carry weight. The message should be stop messing around with people, respect their culture even if you dont understand it, and recognize the divinity that is within all. You cannot perfect what is already perfect. And back up those words. Give the survivors and the community you wronged money till it hurts.
Talking of reparations, any guess on which colonial country demanded reparations, got it, and left the country it colonized in deep debt and impoverished? Jeopardy Hint: what is Haiti?
That still does not help the person who suffered and died.
We're talking about two separate things. There is a difference between making amends to a culture, and then there is making amends to the individual, and you can't to the latter.
One has to believe in what the religion teaches to believe in the power it has.
No, one only needs to observe that religion has power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
What is the power do you, as an Atheist, think exists in religion?
It has the power to lead, whether for good or for bad. If only more religions were focused on doing good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
That is a surprising statement.
I do not know why, it is obvious the power that religion has on people, and it is obvious religion will never go away, so it only makes sense to use it. And if greedy people can use it to make money, why should honest people not use it for good?
You keep repeating the obvious. Are you trying to say you dont believe in reparations because those children are dead so just forget the whole thing and move on? Maybe the Pope agrees with you, but not Trudeau.
Yes, and I'll probably keep repeating it. Because 'saying' I'm sorry doesn't do anything to help the immediate victim. And it doesn't do a thing to hold responsible those who did the harm...the sin.
I find it a little difficult to believe that Pope Francis is so moved by the Canadian history and this situation, when he made Junipero Serra a saint long after the truth was known about the atrocities that Serra committed and condoned in California. The principles are not different -- a lack of respect for, and the abuse of indigenous people.
No, one only needs to observe that religion has power.
It has the power to lead, whether for good or for bad. If only more religions were focused on doing good.
I do not know why, it is obvious the power that religion has on people, and it is obvious religion will never go away, so it only makes sense to use it. And if greedy people can use it to make money, why should honest people not use it for good?
How do you see religion, and its power, lead for good? Where is the evidence? Is it obvious to atheists that religion will never go away? Is that a belief?
Yes, and I'll probably keep repeating it. Because 'saying' I'm sorry doesn't do anything to help the immediate victim. And it doesn't do a thing to hold responsible those who did the harm...the sin.
I find it a little difficult to believe that Pope Francis is so moved by the Canadian history and this situation, when he made Junipero Serra a saint long after the truth was known about the atrocities that Serra committed and condoned in California. The principles are not different -- a lack of respect for, and the abuse of indigenous people.
All true. But why is reparations not a way towards reconciliation? You are not answering that question. It is not just an apology, it is putting his money where his mouth is. Those who committed the ‘sin’ are also dead. Why cant the organization that organized the “sin” not pay reparation? What do YOU think would by ethical justice?
What do you think about the 4.5 mil Alex Jones is being made to pay to the Sandy Hook parents? Is that not reparation? Their children are still dead, and Jones was only being a creep making money off their grief with his broadcast, not even the shooter. Should he or not pay?
No, one only needs to observe that religion has power.
It has the power to lead, whether for good or for bad. If only more religions were focused on doing good.
I do not know why, it is obvious the power that religion has on people, and it is obvious religion will never go away, so it only makes sense to use it. And if greedy people can use it to make money, why should honest people not use it for good?
I agree.
Religion has power -- for the good or bad -- because some people see, and make it have power.
Many of the survivors are younger than most posters here, the last Residental School ended during your Clinton presidency. The names of some of the government officals responsible are beingberased from the naming of institutions and somedemand to remove the name of Sir John A himself, imagine the remivam of all refetences to George Washington in your country. And it was not just native children, the Christian Brothers from Mnt Cashel abusers were transferred to Vancouver and molstef boys until well into the Obama term. With the approval of the Catholic Church. And a reminder to my American friends the Catholic Church is muh larger and more powerful relatively speaking in Canada than in the States and the Evangelical Church much weaker.
Unless the Popes visit is followed through with action and funds it will be preceived as window dressing but it has acheived much in addressing the issue in thepublic eye that I do not think the Church can slude back without a large backlash from rhe Canadian public including the Catholics themselves. And hopefully our current PM, a Catholic himself, keeps pressure on them.
By the Canadian Constitution some provinces including my own have to fund Catholic school systems but fortunately they are run in the exact same way as public schools are. In fact in St Albert the public school system in the Cathklic schools and the separate school system is the public school system.
Note that this Pope called the abuses a genocide.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
