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I know the history behind the abuse of children but thanks for sharing it. That is not news to me, pun intended.
If the Pope offered some serious reparation for the indigenous people who were so wronged that would be news. Anyway I don't want to derail topic any more.
I don't think this is off topic, because one of the reasons skeptics and and atheists post in this thread is to exchange opinion about these sorts of issues that involve both religion and politics.
PS: You'd think at least these thread titles would not include misspelled words...
When horrors like this happen actors on both sides use religion to justify their actions. Closer to home those who opposed slavery besides the enslaved themselves, based their belief to abolish on the same religion that others used to not only preserve it but to make laws that promote the rights of slave holders and to expand slavery. All the whitepeople read from the same book to justify evil and also to abolish it and died for their beliefs. A common thread that connects all religions is the exhortation do good, do the right thing. They say all that because doing good is hard. Knowing what is good is harder. What people read into it and how they act is not religion, it is their "inner voice".
All too true and why we must judge as we do with hopes our better "inner voice" prevails...
The evidence is it's power to do bad, because people are influenced by religion. And if it can be abused to make people do bad things, it can be used to make people not do bad things.
Some atheists have noted this, including myself, but I can not speak for all atheists. It is a belief based on the observation that religion has existed for thousands of years, and that it is still not going away in today's interconnected world.
Why do you think those empowered to do bad, as evidenced by your observation, will turn around to do good? That is your belief, because there is no evidence for that. Unlike you, they think what they do IS good. That is their belief.
Past performance is not a guarantee for future performance as my financial institution reminds me. Same holds for history. No guarantee.
I don't think this is off topic, because one of the reasons skeptics and and atheists post in this thread is to exchange opinion about these sorts of issues that involve both religion and politics.
PS: You'd think at least these thread titles would not include misspelled words...
It is the British spelling. I always read it as septic.
Of course it is about money. Money solves a lot of problems and it hurts to give. If that is meaningful to the community whose children were abused and “assimilated”, a genocide as the Pope described, then yes it is meaningful. That also is the only respectful response to the community and its culture.
So do you not believe in reparation because it is “about the money?l And you also do not think sorry is enough, and the PM of Canada agrees with you. He wants more from the pope, and i think he will agree money for the community would be a meaningful apology.
So if not money, what would be enough in your estimation to pay for the genocide?
There is NOTHING that can make up for GENOCIDE. NOTHING.
I support the Canadian government in this. I hate to go back to that sappy movie "Love Story", but there is some truth to the phrase that "love means never having to say you're sorry. I've been reading quite a lot lately how the American Indians were treated by Father Junipero Serra and the other priests in Alta California, and it was, to a large extent, very similar to slavery. I don't know why anyone would think that saying, "Oh, by the way, we're sorry" have much meaning to long dead people, people who suffered at their hands. I'm not saying they don't deserve some credit...but it is somewhat hollow. I used to see a lot of the same type of "I'm sorry" routine in my school over discipline matters. Some were really sorry, but even those could not undo the damage they had done toward other students, and occasionally toward teachers.
I hear you, and you remind me of so many times when someone or some company will simply say they are sorry after botching a job or overcharging or damaging something...
When it comes to matters of consequence, I'm quick to point out that being sorry doesn't do anything to correct or make right the wrong. I used to own a company, for example, and if a mistake was made of some sort, I always tried to compensate in ADDITION to an apology. It's always amazing to me how many people think a simple sorry is good enough when really it's far from good enough. I've had to extract compensation in this way too many times to count. Four times in small claims court, but I'm happy to report I won every one of the cases I had to take to court. The court tends to agree that simple "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it either.
That is a different situation. In the Canadian case, some of the children are elderly and still very much alive, and others did not forget siblings or other relatives who didn't survive the residential school system. Yes, the damage cannot be undone, but if you listened to the Pope's speech, he very clearly acknowledged that at the outset.
Not saying his visit makes up even a tiny fraction for what was done, but I truly believe by his demeanor and his words and the events last year leading up to this visit, that this situation truly rocked him personally, and it appeared the delegation of chiefs who received him saw that. At any rate, it is theirs to accept or reject.
Of course I am not a religious person, at all, but that doesn't mean I can't also have opinion about religious leaders, good or bad...
Pope Francis has proven himself to be the "real deal" for many people including me. He tries, he's a reformer, and although the Catholic church drags along a lot of baggage, Pope Francis seems to be sincere about wanting a better world for all people, and to do what he can to promote at least some progress where he can.
Is anyone advocating any kind of compensation for the dead? I don't think that would be in any way very effective or productive from a pragmatic standpoint...
The indigenes people, many of whom are survivors of the “assimilation” program, have some ideas. The Pope needs to sit with them, listen, and work out a plan that would reconcile their grievances. That would make his ‘penitent’ visit more meaningful. And since he is the leader of all Catholics and a direct lineage to Jesus, according to LearnMe, this will be a loud and clear message. That will be news.
According to me?
Again, I'm not making any of this up. You are source of a whole lot of head-scratching...
I hear you, and you remind me of so many times when someone or some company will simply say they are sorry after botching a job or overcharging or damaging something...
When it comes to matters of consequence, I'm quick to point out that being sorry doesn't do anything to correct or make right the wrong. I used to own a company, for example, and if a mistake was made of some sort, I always tried to compensate in ADDITION to an apology. It's always amazing to me how many people think a simple sorry is good enough when really it's far from good enough. I've had to extract compensation in this way too many times to count. Four times in small claims court, but I'm happy to report I won every one of the cases I had to take to court. The court tends to agree that simple "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it either.
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