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Attacking religious belief is the LOW discussion of this place. And I hate to admit that I've done more than my share..
What do you imagine your religious beliefs have to do with my statement?
You repeatedly make bizarre, illogical statements and now people are supposed to venture a guess as to why you have visions of a shopping mall? No one here knows; ask your mental health professional.
It just makes me wonder why ANYONE wants to even bother with religious people. As if anything they are doing could affect them. No.
Well I know I like to discuss the topic out of intrinsic interest, but I suspect I'm in the minority there (or at least here at city-data... so I guess I understand your mall analogy). I also find myself defending Christianity/theism a lot. Anti-theism is empty rhetoric, but it gains momentum when it isn't challenged, just like any sort of fundamentalist point of view. It needs to be kept in check, by me if not a theist. The whole "First they came..." thing
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I just think they are misguided to even want to attack religion. Just as I was as recently as a year ago.
They have certainly skipped a step, IMO. First and foremost should be a decent case against what you're attacking, and I don't think they ever managed to construct one.
Attacking religious belief is the LOW discussion of this place.
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Originally Posted by Rafius
Why do you think religious beliefs should be immune from criticism?
I'm seeing a subtle difference, thought I'd point it out. "Religious belief" is probably referring to religion in general (If you attack religious belief, you're saying people shouldn't have any religious beliefs). Conversely, "religious beliefS" are free to be criticized, in that individual doctrines can be assessed without saying/suggesting religion itself is a problem.
Attacking religious belief is the LOW discussion of this place. And I hate to admit that I've done more than my share.
I'm reminded of a workplace weekly prayer meeting from about 20 years ago where I used to work. There was a small group of believers who would meet once a week in a small conference room during lunch. We didn't talk about religion or denominational things. It was just a prayer support group, basically. Well, one day there was a new guy there. He started off the bat by trying to get into a religious debate. I could tell where it was going and I nipped it in the bud. He never came back.
I told him that I would be more than happy to have a debate meeting if he ever wanted one. But it just couldn't interfere with that. But no one else was really interested. The group wouldn't have minded his being there even with his differing beliefs. I forget what he was, maybe Jehova's Witness. The other people were mostly like charismatic/evangelical. Very open minded people, in my opinion. But he wasn't interested in the spiritual support part of the group.
It just makes me wonder why ANYONE wants to even bother with religious people. As if anything they are doing could affect them. No. I just think they are misguided to even want to attack religion. Just as I was as recently as a year ago.
I'm curious about this persistent sniping at the ethics of questioning religion. There's no reason why we (or you) should apologise for this. We are too canny to fall for the continues efforts to shame us into silence.
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Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
Well I know I like to discuss the topic out of intrinsic interest, but I suspect I'm in the minority there (or at least here at city-data... so I guess I understand your mall analogy). I also find myself defending Christianity/theism a lot. Anti-theism is empty rhetoric, but it gains momentum when it isn't challenged, just like any sort of fundamentalist point of view. It needs to be kept in check, by me if not a theist. The whole "First they came..." thing
They have certainly skipped a step, IMO. First and foremost should be a decent case against what you're attacking, and I don't think they ever managed to construct one.
If you feel that you are in a minority in discussion such matters, it wasn't always that way. At one time, atheists were a beleaguered minority with Christian apologists roaming free -range. No we rule the range and Christians huddle on Their Forum demanding that we atheists be forbidden from posting anything to disturb their cosy Faith and damning each other as not real Christians on matters of Scriptural interpretation.
We won that dominance by our case, and if you think that we haven't made one, you are mistaken.
We won that dominance by our case, and if you think that we haven't made one, you are mistaken.
For anti-theism, no. There have been many attempts to show that theism is either false or harmful in and of itself, but none have been successful. This is why the strongest weapon at the anti-theist's disposal is still empty rhetoric (e.g., the emotional problem of evil).
I'm seeing a subtle difference, thought I'd point it out. "Religious belief" is probably referring to religion in general (If you attack religious belief, you're saying people shouldn't have any religious beliefs). Conversely, "religious beliefS" are free to be criticized, in that individual doctrines can be assessed without saying/suggesting religion itself is a problem.
Yes, the attack is against all religion in general. They denied it again and again, but that's all they do.
I don't. My point is that the attacks are boring and dull. But you are free to continue if it makes you happy.
We've been doing it for long enough so I don't think we are going to obediently pack up and bugger off no matter how much it may suit the Believers. But you are welcome to save yourself being bored and do something more interesting than making up all manner of speculations about motives and modes of thoughts. You can safely leave that to Arach.
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