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Well, perhaps I misunderstood you then. I thought Cruithne's question was a legitimate one, but you appear to be saying that you meant "after they died." In that case, my original answer probably should not have been "no." It could not have been "yes" either, since the word "consent" implies that permission is asked before an action is taken. I won't elaborate, though, since you've asked me not to.
If you will reread my post, I said nothing about it being A-OK to have Holocaust victims baptized. I have a personal policy of not just posting links in response to questions, because I think that most of the time, doing so is just an easy way out. I generally prefer to use my own words in answering people's questions. I'm going to make an exception here, because I think that this article will answer your question better than I can: Recent Mormon baptisms for Holocaust victims questioned. If, once you have read it, you still have questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them.
A number of question come up.
First of all, why did Mormon's even think it was OK in the first place to baptize victims of the Holocaust? Why are there repeated transgressions of the agreement not to continue the practice.
What right does the Mormon church have to posthumously baptize ANY person of another religion, or no religion at all. It is none of their business, and to excuse it because it "is our belief" is the most egregious disrespect to the dead person, their family, and their belief. It's like the Southern slave owners who found passages in the bible to justify slave ownership. And yes, the bible, both the old and the new testament, endorses slavery. It's wrong, and so is posthumously baptizing anyone. It's just wrong, no matter what the LDS belief is.
Well, perhaps I misunderstood you then. I thought Cruithne's question was a legitimate one, but you appear to be saying that you meant "after they died." In that case, my original answer probably should not have been "no." It could not have been "yes" either, since the word "consent" implies that permission is asked before an action is taken. I won't elaborate, though, since you've asked me not to.
To be honest the question makes no sense whichever way you look at it.
1. Of course you cannot ask a person's consent after they are dead. - Unless of course you think you can somehow communicate with the dead?
2. Assuming these people were asked their consent to be baptized once they are dead (while they were still alive), how would you, Katzpur even know?
Is Katzpur the font of all knowledge of what everyone has been asked throughout history?
First of all, why did Mormon's even think it was OK in the first place to baptize victims of the Holocaust? Why are there repeated transgressions of the agreement not to continue the practice.
What right does the Mormon church have to posthumously baptize ANY person of another religion, or no religion at all. It is none of their business, and to excuse it because it "is our belief" is the most egregious disrespect to the dead person, their family, and their belief. It's like the Southern slave owners who found passages in the bible to justify slave ownership. And yes, the bible, both the old and the new testament, endorses slavery. It's wrong, and so is posthumously baptizing anyone. It's just wrong, no matter what the LDS belief is.
You've asked me a question, but then you've strongly implied that it's not going to matter to you in the slightest what my answer is because you've already decided that what we're doing is "wrong." If you think I might be able to persuade you to see this issue from another perspective, I'd be happy to try to explain the reasoning behind the practice. If it's just going to be a waste of my time, though, I'll pass.
You've asked me a question, but then you've strongly implied that it's not going to matter to you in the slightest what my answer is because you've already decided that what we're doing is "wrong." If you think I might be able to persuade you to see this issue from another perspective, I'd be happy to try to explain the reasoning behind the practice. If it's just going to be a waste of my time, though, I'll pass.
I'd be interested to understand the reasoning behind the practice Katzpur, if you care to share.
To be honest the question makes no sense whichever way you look at it.
1. Of course you cannot ask a person's consent after they are dead. - Unless of course you think you can somehow communicate with the dead?
I agree. But unlike you (I think), I believe human beings have an eternal spirit which continues to exist as a fully self-aware being after death. So while it would be impossible for the spirit of someone who had died to "consent" (i.e. to give his consent to the living) to a baptism prior to it taking place, I believe it would be entirely possible for that spirit to "approve" of the baptism after it took place. Of course, the person who had stood as proxy for the deceased would have no way of knowing that.
Quote:
2. Assuming these people were asked their consent to be baptized once they are dead (while they were still alive), how would you, Katzpur even know?
Obviously, I wouldn't.
Quote:
Is Katzpur the font of all knowledge of what everyone has been asked throughout history?
Not that she knows of.
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