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View Poll Results: Which one is more subtropical?
NZ 4 16.67%
Virginia 12 50.00%
Both in their way 3 12.50%
Not sure it is too hard to really know 0 0%
Depends what part of each place 5 20.83%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-10-2024, 07:45 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53

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Under the Köppen climate classification, the Cape Cod area has an oceanic climate. Locally, the Cape has a more moderate climate than inland locations in eastern New England. On occasion, it takes the brunt of extreme weather systems such as the Blizzard of 2005 and Hurricane Bob. Because of the influence of the Atlantic Ocean on three sides, temperatures are typically a few degrees lower in the summer and often several degrees higher in the winter than the adjacent mainland. Two ocean currents (the Gulf Stream, a warm ocean current from the south) and the Labrador Current, a cold ocean current from the north), meander and interact with each other. As a result, the ocean temperatures on the eastern shore of Cape Cod rarely get above 60 °F (16 °C), while along the southern coast (Nantucket Sound), water temperatures can sometimes reach 70 °F (21 °C) or higher.

The water surrounding Cape Cod moderates winter temperatures nearly enough to extend the humid subtropical climate zone to what could be its northernmost limit in eastern North America, as the peninsula is split between USDA hardiness zones 7a (Upper and Mid Cape) and 7b (Lower and Outer Cape).[24] Consequently, many subtropical indicator plant species typically found in more southerly latitudes are grown there, including Camellias, Ilex opaca, Magnolia grandiflora and Albizia julibrissin. However, Cape Cod falls below the 72 °F (22 °C) threshold, as the warmest month, July, averages around 68.25 °F (20.14 °C).

Me: I checked Ilex Opaca native range, Cape Cod include:
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Old 03-10-2024, 07:47 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53
If you didn’t receive link just search Ilex opaca native range. Ilex opaca is native to the humid-subtropical climate in US crazy Cape Cod is in the native range! Cape Cod is Oceanic and not humid-subtropical because it’s summers are cooler.

But under the 0°C isotherm is Dfb. Because of the Ilex Opaca being native I consider it oceanic abd the -3°C isotherm use. Unbelievable places. Lets make a thread talking about what can be grown in certain regions that many thought they couldn’t.
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Old 03-10-2024, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
5,729 posts, read 3,508,707 times
Reputation: 2643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtropical-is-temperate3 View Post
Windmills would certainly not do well in Toronto, but Amherstburg has more chances.
Not a chance.
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Old 03-10-2024, 08:32 PM
 
638 posts, read 348,560 times
Reputation: 1107
Honestly it’s a silly comparison. New Zealand is nearly 1,000 miles long. The South Island has high mountainous areas with an alpine environment. Clearly Virginia itself is more subtropical.
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Old 03-10-2024, 09:23 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Mountain View Post
Not a chance.
Whatever you say will not change the fact that some people are growing them in Amherstburg.
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Old 03-10-2024, 09:24 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53
But windmills are hardy to zone 7, Amherstburg has some chances but as I said Sabal minor is the better choice. Amherstburg is zone 7 already.
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Old 03-10-2024, 09:26 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53
Well Kentucky with 6b got more success, I don’t know what happened there, maybe the soil is better?
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Old 03-10-2024, 09:29 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53
But Windmills in KY are too hard to grow, Sabal minor got the best results. Needle palms are common, and West Virginia is growing the three as well. Ohio in Lake Erie area, and South of Columbus these areas are going crazy. Cleveland is getting filled up with many subtropical species, Cleveland is looking different.
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Old 03-10-2024, 09:34 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53
Oh I forgot to say Chicago and Sabal Minor, I don’t know how far people are trying to go with this! Whatever, Chicago is continental. But it surprised me that it is 0.4°F short in coldest month to border a humid-subtropical under the -3°C isotherm, I think it’s because Lake Michigan prevents some more extremes. Because Iowa at similar latitude and nit far a way is way more extreme. Iowa should be a proud state since it is almost entirely Dfa in a way that no state does.
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Old 03-10-2024, 09:42 PM
 
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
405 posts, read 82,682 times
Reputation: 53
Pennsylvania is confusing you can’t really know which place is humid-subtropical or humid continental and highlands can get Dfb and Cfb so it is hard to know that, but for planting species hardiness zone is a better indicator climate type can’t really define. Just imagine a place fits the thresholds to be certain climate but gets extremes. Just look Billings under the -3°C isotherm can be a borderline Cfa, but it is in hardiness zone 4b, what subtropical plants can you grow there nothing, maybe Ilex Opaca and needle palms, but still would struggle since they are in their very limit. See climate classification will not define vegetation entirely.

Well Billings is relatively mild compared to most Montana and most of the winter seems mild, but wait gor the cold waves and snaps too terrible. One day 63°F the other -17°F, with high below 0°F. A mess in winter a total mess! It is also borderline to BSk adding more complexity, it is too too extreme and a borderline, that maybe we should declare it the most extreme temperate climate of the world. If we use -3°C isotherm I have concluded that Billings taking an extreme Cfa, has the coldest hardiness without being continental and had the lowest record low of all temperate climates. So -49°F is not only the record low of humid-subtropical climate but of all temperate climates (C). Crazy, crazy, crazy.
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