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Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,060,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonborn
Gun ownership has little to do with freedom, IMO. In many ways, you can also argue that a society that promotes gun ownership and cultivates fear is not a free society at all, especially when many people feel like they HAVE to own a gun to feel safe, even within their own homes.
To Americans: you have to understand that in those countries with tough gun laws, most people in those countries don't want guns and guns, or gun ownership is just not that important to them. Their "freedom" is to not have to live in a society in which you feel the need to be armed.
To me, freedom is being able to be yourself, to express yourself and to live your life and to have opportunities, regardless of what social class you were born into or your physical appearance. In the US, it is unfortunate that many people refer only to the government as a threat to personal freedom. Far more of a threat is society as a whole and the pressures that it exerts on people to conform, while any deviations from the norm are shunned and people are outcasted. A society in which so many people cannot adopt a "live and let live" approach is not a free society.
'With every new freedom we gain, we have to sacrifice one we already have'
An analogy can be seen with the advancement of weaponery in general. Guns made killing easier. Nuclear weapons also made people more fearful and less free.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,060,466 times
Reputation: 11862
I have little doubt that if one were to magically vapourize all the fire-arms in the US today (like Gort in the Day the Earth Stood Still) the crime rate would drop dramatically. Of all the countries with high crime rates, firearm ownership is WIDESPREAD among all sectors of the population.
A gun in every household is a hazard. The question Americans ask themselves is, are all those school shootings, murders within families and friends, murders committed by people who legally owned a firearm, worth the right to bear arms?
The American people resoundingly answer 'yes.' That is their decision, so honestly if there's a school shooting don't try to blame it on violent movies or violent video games or ethnic minorities. Sure, guns don't kill people, people do, but they make it a heck of a lot easier and cleaner.
It's up to each city and state to decide. For years, Washington DC had very strict laws banning firearms, for example. Many gun enthusiasts can get obsessive about the restrictions of many northern states, in particular.
Last edited by Tiger Beer; 06-10-2012 at 10:22 AM..
I have little doubt that if one were to magically vapourize all the fire-arms in the US today (like Gort in the Day the Earth Stood Still) the crime rate would drop dramatically. Of all the countries with high crime rates, firearm ownership is WIDESPREAD among all sectors of the population.
A gun in every household is a hazard. The question Americans ask themselves is, are all those school shootings, murders within families and friends, murders committed by people who legally owned a firearm, worth the right to bear arms?
The American people resoundingly answer 'yes.' That is their decision, so honestly if there's a school shooting don't try to blame it on violent movies or violent video games or ethnic minorities. Sure, guns don't kill people, people do, but they make it a heck of a lot easier and cleaner.
Didn't seem to happen that way down under..... Crime up Down Under
Since Australia banned private ownership of most guns in 1996, crime
has risen dramatically on that continent, prompting critics of U.S. gun
control efforts to issue new warnings of what life in America could be
like if Congress ever bans firearms.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,060,466 times
Reputation: 11862
^ The source hardly seems impartial. I'm not sure if nationwide crime really has risen since 1996...btw, it was mainly on semi-autos etc, the laws regarding handguns didn't change much.
I'm pretty sure murder rates have come down since the 1980s here.
A gun in every household is a hazard. The question Americans ask themselves is, are all those school shootings, murders within families and friends, murders committed by people who legally owned a firearm, worth the right to bear arms?
The American people resoundingly answer 'yes.' That is their decision, so honestly if there's a school shooting don't try to blame it on violent movies or violent video games or ethnic minorities. Sure, guns don't kill people, people do, but they make it a heck of a lot easier and cleaner.
I don't believe it's a resounding "yes". The gun owners are more vocal. It's only a small minority of the population that owns guns. Most people aren't interested, at the very least, and many oppose lax gun laws, especially after those shooting incidents.
You should post on this in the Politics section when the subject comes up.
Hmm thought i´d comment on this, well from my experiences in living in different countries here is my view on:
America, the vast majority of the people think its necessary to own a handgun for defence and if you don´t your considered "abnormal". I can understand now why people think like this, gun crime is rife and I remember hearing on the news at least once a week that there was a homicide (by firearms). Furthermore I would often venture out on my own without a gun in the truck and go to walmart and friends would warn me about parking at the front of the store in case of being shot by African Americans (also found that very racist). I also did not feel safe as it seems to be the norm for people to apply for CCW and to carry in vehicles, its like people are living in fear, something that is not thought of where I come from which is Scotland.
Scotland: In my country it does not enter the minds of people to think about owning a firearm for protection, the culture and attitude is very different and we do not need to leave the house carrying a weapon on our person. I had that mindset in Mississippi and people thought I was crazy and i´d end up raped or shot because I did not have a gun on my person. Also every American I spoke to in MS thought Scotland was the same as there.
Spain: Similar to Scotland, i´ve spoke to many people about this and they feel its madness to be armed to go shopping, traveling in the car - basically in general, they do not feel threatened or live in fear. In Spain also gun crime is very low and the majority of crimes are petty for example pickpocking, I go out running in the evening and never ever feel scared (in the back of my mind) like I did in the US, perhaps because the nature of the crimes and the attitudes of the people are like chalk and cheese. I felt like I had to own a gun in the US which I did, eventually because there was always a threat of someone carjacking (rare here), robbing me (also rare here) or shooting me (also rare here). My ex also carried a gun too and seemed to be a normal way of life, for me I felt like there was a problem for people to feel like that. Just to clarify I currently own firearms and its purely for recreational use, but I would never think of using them for defense even if it was legal, the chances of me being shot in Spain are like 0. I think if you´ve never been to these countries you cannot possibly see for your own eyes to understand how different it is.
I think it all boils down to culture and mindset, I would hate for people to be armed here I could just imagine petty arguments turning into shootouts when people lose it, or drunks pulling out a gun or even kids in schools or in malls, that would be the next thing you´d hear, just like what happens in the USA.
I am happy to be living in Spain without the fear in the back of my mind of being shot thanks.
^ The source hardly seems impartial. I'm not sure if nationwide crime really has risen since 1996...btw, it was mainly on semi-autos etc, the laws regarding handguns didn't change much.
I'm pretty sure murder rates have come down since the 1980s here.
another source... AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN
In 2002 -- five years after enacting its gun ban -- the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Hunting weapons are allowed, but you can't carry them around in ready to fire condition, or use for self-defense.
Ahh the that is pretty much the Same Gun policy we have here in Canada but a (PAL) Possession and Acquisition of firearms license is needed .
A Possession and Acquisition Licence is a licence that allows individuals in Canada to possess and acquire firearms as well as ammunition. Licences are typically valid for five (5) years and must be renewed prior to expiry to maintain all classes. Once licensed, an individual can apply for a firearm transfer; and an Authorization To Transport (ATT) for restricted and prohibited firearms.
If an individual possessing a PAL is convicted of certain offences, a PAL can be revoked. If an individual does not renew their PAL prior to its expiration date or if they have their PAL revoked, they must legally dispose of any firearms in their possession. A licence for prohibited firearms can be issued to qualifying businesses, and very rarely to individuals (firearms they own, as the gun laws changed over time.) Previous convictions for serious violent, drug or weapons offences almost invariably result in the denial of the application. Possession and Acquisition Licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Canadians An SKS - YouTube
Anyways I was just going to say we have the SKS with magazine limitations as a common Rifle to pick up on the cheap and take it to the range or out into the bush to for hunting.
Good Review on what legal gun ownership in canada is like and he explains the magazine limitations
All assault Rifles are banned so the full and semi-auto AK-47 and AR-15 and all their varients are classed ad prohibited weapons and illegal to Aquire and Possess.
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