Shame on the UCD Police and Chancellor Katehi (Davis, Montclair: vs., title)

[mayorhaggar]

That poor, poor sidewalk...

[TimC2462]

Originally Posted by rimmerama

So what type of force should the police have used to separate the protesters who had interlocked their arms?

Originally Posted by rimmerama

Police have continuum of force guidelines, just because you are passively resisting, doesn't mean the police can't use force to effect an arrest (since some degree of force would be necessary to effect the arrest).

This is an example from wikipedia:

1. Physical Presence
2. Soft Hands
3. Mace or Pepper Spray
(A K-9 unit would fall here)
4. Hard Hands
5. Police Baton, Taser, etc.
6. Threat of Deadly Force
7. Deadly Force

Must it be repeated again?

Curmudgeon, who has worked as a LEO in California, has said several that there are other means of using physical force to separate the students from each other. The important distinction he made was that a police officer can stop using physical force immediately to release pain. That is a far different from someone using a pepper spray directly in someone's face which the pain can endure for hours.

If you can't understand that there are progressive steps of using physical force to enforce the law, then I don't think asking any questions on how LEO is supposed to apply force is going to help you. It seems you would have no problem if a LEO immediately utilized deadly force on a group of students who were simply blocking a path by sitting on a sidewalk.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by VLWH

So I take it you disagree that state employee pensions, illegal immigration, californiandream act have not made a negative financial fiscal impact on our state? sheesh.....

No, I don't, and to think so defies logic.

The only people who could possibly equate that with pepper spraying children would have to be completely out to lunch.

Let us take one of your points. California has an agriculture sector worth $40 billion dollars directly. The indirect value, that is sales of tractors to lunch meat to work boots to used Pontiacs is hundreds of billions of dollars. That industry is completely dependent on illegal labor.

Lets take a look at the California Dream Act. How much money has it cost the state of California up to this point? The law was passed on October 9, to blame it for any negative financials defies logic.

Now lets look at the big rightwing whacko boogeyman, California state pensions... California 2011 spending, $415 billion, pension costs $29 billion, or less than 10%.

Here is the problem. There are those who prefer their ideologically based beliefs to facts.

Not a real good idea.

[rimmerama]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

[b]


Must it be repeated again?

Curmudgeon, who has worked as a LEO in California, has said several that there are other means of using physical force to separate the students from each other. The important distinction he made was that a police officer can stop using physical force immediately to release pain. That is a far different from someone using a pepper spray directly in someone's face which the pain can endure for hours.

If you can't understand that there are progressive steps of using physical force to enforce the law, then I don't think asking any questions on how LEO is supposed to apply force is going to help you. It seems you would have no problem if a LEO immediately utilized deadly force on a group of students who were simply blocking a path by sitting on a sidewalk.

An officer can - but every department develops its own use of force continuum. That's my point - this officer may have simply been following his department's use of force continuum.


What seems to you is not what is. Pepper spray vs. pain compliance is a bit different than pepper spray vs. shooting someone. Perhaps the issue here is that you equate all police force as being of the same severity.

[04kL4nD]

So LEO should be lemmings and do whatever they are told, despite sound judgement and common sense? Wow... The backpeddling in this thread blows my mind.

[Gemdiver]

Originally Posted by Bulldogdad

Those spoiled rotten brats got exactly what they wanted.

Oh boo hoo, shame on you.... LOL

Would you like some tacos and carnitas with that pepper sauce.

When they surrounded police they were lucky they didn't get frigging night sticks cracked up the side of their brain baskets.

lol

Shouldn't these hippies be doing something useful like attending their bong class or underwater basket weaving class. lmao

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Not only do we agree, but that is several times in one day ... where will it all end?!

I know. Curmudgeon, Nullgeo and Highnlite in agreement. These must be the end times indeed!

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by rimmerama

I understand, you did say you get violent when you're challenged, perhaps a forum where people are allowed to have opinions different than yours isn't a healthy place. I'm sure it insults your sense of importance.

Sane is irrelevent - moral authority is what it is, doesn't have to make sense to you.

"Sane is irrelevant"? Apparently to you.

If your opinions had any slight basis for considerations in the past, they sure don't now. And yes, moral authority is what it is: 'the duty of citizens to defend the foundations of their society against tyrannical usurpation'. But then, you wouldn't know anything about defending your country would you. Too busy in PolySci classes and trying to make the school debate team, I imagine.

And if you ever do find the bone to defend your country and society -- rather than engaging in vacuous, supercilious debate over techniques to physically assault citizens who stand up to challenge excesses of power -- and especially if you put yourself in the line of fire and take damage doing it -- whether by feeling the burn of the spray point blank in your face, or by the terror of being blown ass over teakettle and then left for dead on foreign battlefields to carry those scars for life -- then you can talk to me with some credibility about things like moral authority, sanity, and violent reaction to imminent threats. Until then your lips are merely flapping.

Now for another of your tasteless, demeaning comments about those who actually served their country, as you made in the past?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by rimmerama

Could be, I'm no cop, I do know there are the continuum of force guidelines departments use, I suppose that would be where to look for U.C police, see if pepper spray comes before going hands on.

Escalation of force is a serious issue but set "procedures" don't adequately cover all situations. That's where common sense comes in. In this case, I find that sadly lacking.

[04kL4nD]

I'd say add me to that list, but I don't want the casual CDer to get confused :P